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Mass Protest in the Netherlands by Farmers.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Oh aye and the people who replace Europeans are going to give a **** about your green agenda 😂

    Like I said, an absolute suicide cult that deteremind to take us with them.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What a time to be alive, Covid, Russia Ukraine, climate crisis, food crisis, cost of living crisis, recession around the corner, refugee crisis **** weather just goes on and on.

    I think we would all be better off turning off that TV and phone and go for a pint



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    One of the biggest reasons is overpopulation and one of the biggest reasons things were better in the past in the 50's and 60's was our population was half the size it is today. Fewer people, fewer resources, energy, food and land required. It's inescapable. In the Good Old Days the world population was way under half the size. In 1950 the world population was two and a half billion, today it's nearly eight billion. In the same 1950 environmentalism was barely a thing and dangerous chemicals from industry and farming and human effluent were being regularly dumped straight into our waterways. Within cities rivers were not much better than open sewers. When I was a kid on a clear day with the wind blowing right you could smell the Liffey from the Dublin suburbs. There were no clear air acts etc or any of that either and our city buildings were covered in a layer of smutty black. Bugger all recyling too, save for glass bottles and of course more people repairing stuff and stuff being repairable in the first place. That's another huge bloody problem. Manufacturers specifically making products unrepairable by design, so making it "cheaper" to not repair and go out and buy the New Shiny Thing for the dopamine hit.

    Add in rampant consumerism which is the other elephant in the room. On this front alone we are significantly more poluting than our leaded petrol drinking, coal burning, fag smoking, burning rubbish in gardens, feck everything into the bin or down the drains grandparents. I drive an old car. It rolled off the production line in 1999. Since the day it did over half of all plastics that have ever existed have been produced. That's insane to consider. Never mind that recyling plastics is mostly a sham originally dreamt up by the US plastics industry to head off ramifications of environmental laws that were coming along in the 1970's. Now, we may feel better sorting our crap into different coloured bins and it helps a little, but in the face of the level of sheer insane consumption it's pissing into a force ten gale. As I asked of a chap I know who considers himself "green": How many mobile phones have you owned since 2000? All that plastic packaging and coated paper the vast bulk of which which will either be burnt or go into landfill, never mind the phones themselves. He now owns an EV and that's cool, but he's swapped out a new car every four years getting to one and he'll swap that one out too in due course.

    In short IMHO we really need a major reset in how we live our lives and the expectations of our lives and that's a long way off and may only come when it's too bloody late. If it isn't already.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Surely you want humanity to be able to carry on without destroying the planet too? Is that a Green agenda?

    You were the one who said birth rates aren't up to scratch so the West is finished, do you not think immigration could counteract this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The population was 8 million on this island before the famine, but people didn't really consume anything except food so nothing was as polluted. It's not down to population it's down to how we live and the amount of waste we produce.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Well since Ireland pre famine was a dirt poor agrarian society, that had already lost almost all of her natural forestry, raw sewage was a problem and people lived barely above the level of beasts of the field that's hardly an option to go back to. England was far more industrialised and had more people and was filthy as feck. Dark satanic mills and all that and the Thames in London was so putrid and smelly their parliment regularly closed sessions because of the smell. Never mind the outbreaks of cholera.

    Anyway people require more today to live normal lives, halving the population, or certainly not going bloody insane with adding to it as we're regularly being told we must do is the far better bet.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,479 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Well as I already said, they're not going to put a cap on reproduction any time soon, so if we do want the planet to remain intact, what and how much we consume are all we can really focus on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Bad news bucko, unless humanity goes nuclear it's not going to destroy the planet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭pajor


    I live in the east of the country and there is more of a 'presence' of the protests. Enough people around town with an upside down flag and a red handkerchief on the car antenna. I would presume that the most people cannot stand behind the Farmer's Defence Force. Where the head of the group has likened the plight of Dutch farmers to the victims of the Holocaust.

    Back to the teenager arrested in Friesland; I have my doubts if a deliberate shot at the tractor was really necessary. But for a teenager to climb behind the wheel at the end of the day to go to a protest on a motorway with heavy police presence, was a dumb ass decision. Luckily for him he's been released and charges have been dropped.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    There's already a natural cap in the west where birthrates are below replacement. Frankly I'd be sticking with that and not bringing more people in. In parts of the world where they're breeding old style more education for women should be a major priority as the more educated women(and men) increases prosperity and lowers birthrates.

    Even if we went nuclear we'd not destroy the planet. Indeed if it took out a large enough number of us it might actually help. Chernobyl's biodiversity has shot through the roof since the accident.

    As it stands humans are causing one of the larger extinction events in earth's history and we have done since we came along. That is Modern Humans. Neandertals and Erectus and others were around for hundreds of thousands of years and we see no local extinctions in all that time. We show up and you can actually track our migrations out of Africa by local extinction events particularly of large animals. Africa retained the most large animals mainly because they had grown up around us and were far more wary and prone to getting stampy. Australia a good example. A large number of extinctions occurred and sure enough it's when we show up. Ancient Rome wiped out an entire plant species. They denuded their forests so badly it drove their imperial expansion north into where modern Germany is because they had trees. In Tasmania we wiped out the Tasmanian Tiger only a century ago. We even have film footage of the last one. New Zealand is even more clear. It came late to our party. Humans didn't make it there until the 12th century. By the time Europeans show up a couple of centuries later the locals had already wiped out some of the largest flightless birds ever the Moa and one of the largest eagles and a host of other species. In a few centuries. Easter Islanders fúcked their environment up so badly they very nearly made themselves extinct. And that's all before industry came along. The process has been accelerating ever since.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,211 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Bangladesh is about 1.5 times the size of Ireland, it has something like 100mn people and 160mn mid century.


    No problem there.


    Green politics should not just be a vehicle for moralising rich White people, that must change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Labaik


    Protests in Iran last month made every news outlet in the UK.


    Still nothing about the farmers protest.

    Hard to trust Western media.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Even then we won’t destroy the planet. We’re doing a pretty good job of making it uninhabitable for people though. That’s the green agenda actually: keep the planet inhabitable to future generations.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭amacca


    While I agree. I feel some big problems with the green agenda (perceived or otherwise) are

    1) A lot of its most public advocates seem to adopt a do as I say not as I do approach....the jetting around to conferences, lavish lifestyles etc

    2) Some sacred cow activities that produce large quantities of CO2 that most like doing are off the menu (for now at least)

    3) Quite a number of proposed changes merely shift the CO2 production elsewhere..........as long as its off balance sheet for a country its ok if you slash and burn over there etc

    4) Regardless of its beneficial effects it looks like it will increase food and energy insecurity in developed countries

    5) Its nearly always the smaller business person/producer that gets driven out of business/has to pay for it while large companies/industries (many of them directly responsible through production/misinformation campaigns) get off seemingly scott free (make record profits in some cases)

    6) Some of the changes while potentially ruinous to the small guy don't appear to achieve that much in the overall context.....I'm aware that smacks of whataboutery and everyone needs to do their part ...but...its a pretty big whatabout..............how can anyone do anything about developing nations or tell them they cant start living the lifestyles we had?.....................................in fact we seem to want to incentivise them by importing products and incentivising production activities in those countries......people seem to think its hopeless, like a virus we wont be able to halt the destruction of the environment that supports us.



    As an aside some of those advocates mentioned in (1) above appear to be heavily invested in alternative products with questionable benefits if you consider things in the round (vested interests in business that benefit from the green agenda - you could argue that's just sound investment/good business but when the ones that advocate also own business that stand to benefit it does give pause for thought)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Attempt justification all you want.

    The video clearly shows him driving away and being fired upon.

    The police have blantantly lied over this incident and others a few times over this protest.

    The only difference is they got caught out with a video this time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Labaik


    Mentioned 5 days ago by Reuters. BBC and Sky News not one mention of it if I am correct, theyve an audience to 100s of millions of people. Seen it mentioned on Sky News Australia briefly but nothing on Irish mainstream media and UK.


    These protests are going on in an EU country about 350 kilometres from mainland UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    so you think there’s an agenda to not report on something, except for all the reporting? So if it’s not on Sky news it’s not one western media?????


    The Brits have had a few things going on this week. I think you could excuse them.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,211 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    6 out of 10 of the largest overall food exporters globally are in Western Europe.


    That is who they are gunning for, it won't really cause food shortages in Europe, the very most of the best farm soil in the world is east of the Urals, along with an Ideal climate for growing crops in most of it.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Just make your point without being obtuse please.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    While we've obviously gone too far in the opposite direction I love how quick people are to forget where we came from. You'll still see undernourished young people here and there ya only have to go back a generation to where it was pervasive. None of my uncles are over 5 foot 10 yet one generation later a load of us are over 6 foot and the next generation now has a few 6 foot 4 lads. My dad grew up with 11 siblings in a 2 room "house" with a pigshed across the way. We're only a generation or two removed from being mud people.

    At the same time though, mechanisation of agriculture has had a massive impact. Where my dad lived was full of streams with eels and fish year-round. Now there are old stone bridges over nothing. The only water is in stagnant drainage ditches. The filth is less obvious but the homogenisation is its own catastrophe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    What are "mud people"?

    The most compelling reasons to have children are transcendental/ supernatural/ religious reasons.

    That's why someone who had 11 children sixty years ago might have 0 now. It has nothing to do with children being 'too expensive', which I often hear people say but that is false.

    I think what people really mean when they say this is that their standard of living will take a massive hit, which is probably true but doesn't mean you "can't" have children that will survive to adulthood.

    Intellectuals who believe CO2 is a poison are the big losers from an evolutionary-biological perspective.

    Such people now often combine several maladaptive (from the pov of passing on your genes) beliefs: climate ideology, belief in contraception, belief in abortion, belief in dedicating your child-bearing years to education/career exclusively if a woman.

    Indians, Bangladeshis, Sub-Saharan Africans and even Israelis are often more "fit" than Westerners in the Darwinian sense not due to greater intellect/intelligence but by having less self-destructive beliefs and motivations and better positive beliefs (a transcendental scope for the future via animism, Hinduism, Islam etc.)

    I'm not sure what the point is of shuffling around populations through immigration is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    What did he think was going to happen when he ran from armed police?

    Why was he fleeing in the first place when they were achieving their goal of blocking up that road?

    How do you know the tractor wasn't going to drive the wrong way up a motorway and wipe out a few families?

    What had happened before the video was recorded?

    You have no idea, I have no idea but yeah sure its definitely 100% the police's fault isn't it because the protesters have been super peaceful so far haven't they, not attacking the police or anything eh?

    People are so polarised just because they support a certain cause, if these were Pro Nazi protesters in tractors doing this you'd be cheering the police on for trying to stop them. Fundamentally you expect the police to discriminate against certain types of protests and not others, the laws are the laws and they only have the right to peaceful protest.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Right lads, there we have i, time to shoot every farmer in a tractor on a public road in case they might go the wrong way up the motorway and wipe out a few families.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    Clearly to anyone whos read my post that's not what I said at all and you didnt even try to respond with any sort of clear counter argument, it's amazing you cry murder over inaccuracies in the police statement over the shooting but then come out with your own crazy response to my post like that, bit of a double standard eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr



    Nothing obtuse about it, European populations are below replacement levels so what future generations are you referring to?

    The ones that these Green lunatics are determined will never be born?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    If that’s your point, it was even more obtuse than I thought

    European birth rates are below replacement levels. The rest of the world isn’t. Aren’t they people too? Do you not care about anyone outside Europe?


    Luckily Europe won’t be depopulated anyway, we have plenty of immigrants coming in to bump up the numbers. God bless them.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭PowerToWait




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    How do you know the tractor wasn't going to drive the wrong way up a motorway and wipe out a few families?

    How do you know he wasn't on his way to rescue a busload of drowning children after their driver crashed into a river?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    When you see activists embracing childlessness with zeal and a kind of bitter pride it is clear they are no-hoper **** walking into the sunset of genetic oblivion.

    They could live a modest life in a cottage with a traditional trade or small business and raise children frugally but choose instead to be urban leftist nuisances with iPads and show-off bicycle paraphernalia.

    Don't let these **** influence you.

    They can't make confirmed precise, accurate predictions about future global temperature and climate - no one can.

    The primary driver of climate is the sun - and nobody knows what the sun is going to do in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr



    Another death cult member so 😂

    

    Do you think the people who replace Europeans in this grand scheme are going to give a **** about you or the environment, or even be capable of running the show. A world run by China, that should sort out carbon emissions alright 🤣

    

    Post edited by Dyr on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    I love all people equally. You clearly don’t. Can you explain why you believe “Europeans” are somehow of higher value?


    I wouldn’t mind if you actually defined who you mean by “Europeans “ first

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'I love all people equally.'

    No you don't unless you're some sort of psychopath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I don't love all people equally because I'm a human and you don't either despite your virtue signalling, I love my family and relatives more than others then my friends and I'm far more concerned about my fellow countrymen and the well being of the continent that we're a part of far more than those who are further afield. This is also how the rest of the world works. Its only the death cult who like pretend otherwise.

    Funny that your universal love doesnt extend to various ethnicities being in danger of becoming extinct, bet you worry about those Pandas though 😂



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ok, I don’t care if people are European or other. I think they of equal value. And I’m the psychopath? Bizarre stuff there.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Why is one genetic identity more important than another to you? You’re avoiding defining “European” because it doesn’t actually mean anything. I suspect I know what you mean though.


    Ethnicities cannot become extinct. Only species can. We aren’t a different species to Africans or Asians. We are all human beings and all of equal value. Do you not agree every person is of equal value? If not, how do you decide their worth?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Was called a conspiracy theorist during covid when I called out the one sided bias from the media.

    It's clear as **** day mainstream media cannot be trusted and will peddle whatever the money tells them too.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I posted 4 links of mainstream media sources covering this story. Took me one google search to find. Google it yourself

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr



    Interesting that you switched from "love" to "value" to try and make a point and assumed that I was referring only to European people. Off the top of my head, Russians, Koreans and Japanese are all below replacement rates. Perhaps you don't really care about diversity in the death cult despite all the blather 😂



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What is this “death cult” nonsense you keeping mentioning?


    I’m still waiting for a definition of European and whether everyone is of equal value.


    you failed to rebut the point about ethnicities becoming extinct. So I assume you’ve conceded that point

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I'm sure we would be saying the same thing if that happened in the USA......



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Labaik


    Not to veer off topic but do you not think the huge influx of immigrants is taking its toll on infrastructure in some European countries? If you look at our little island, we have a health service at breaking point and still were inviting in a ridiculous amount of immigrants, far more than our services can cope with. Its why the Brits voted for Brexit.


    A time will come when the Irish will have enough too.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    sensible immigration is the goal. Not open borders.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    From a historical perspective, Netherlands in living memory experience near famine conditions during the end phase of WW2 and it was only with extensive Allied logistics that starvation was averted. That Holland is even contemplating a policy that would reduce their capacity to feed the population, as agricultural is as much as a culture as an indistry, does imply a myopic blindness of the policymakers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Of equal value to who? To me? They're not. for example, I value people that I know above those that I don't. I value friends above strangers. are you trying to make some point about considering some people not worthy of some basic consideration that you would extend to others. That would probably be racist. Like claiming that you didnt care if African people (for example) ceased to exist as they could be replaced. Thats a view you hold, I don't share it.


    You can always check the dictionary if you're unsure of the definition of a word:

    European

    "1 : a native or inhabitant of Europe. 2 : a person of European descent."

    Extinct:

    "not now existing:"

    Note the example referring to a people being extinct:

    "Many tribes became extinct when they came into contact with Western illnesses."

    Might want to get in touch with cambridge and let them know that they're completely wrong 😂


    Anything else or does that conclude matters?



  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Labaik


    Agree. Maybe the E.U need to wake up to that reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I always find it interesting when these lads always try to put forward positions reliant of semantics or the redefinition of words, as though they now the ground that their on is shaky

    Lets ask them to define what a woman is, usually acts like garlic to a vampire 😁



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    So a European is anyone who currently lives in Europe. European is not an ethnicity. Either is African to be fair. As long as people live in either continent Europeans or Africans can’t cease to exist


    The genetic heritage of those people will change over time, that’s what you really mean. Europe is getting less white, I don’t care about that, only a bigot would care about it.


    Thanks for the answers. It’s clearer now what about this “death cult” nonsense?


    As I said earlier, if you weren’t so obtuse this would be easier. Even easier again if you came out and said what I you meant instead of slyly trying to avoid blatantly racist statements

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Why the EU? Each nation in the EU creates its own rules for immigration from outside the EU

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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