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Mass Protest in the Netherlands by Farmers.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    @Manach but they’re not. The Netherlands produces far more than it could ever use. It’s the 2nd largest exporter of food in the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭gw80


    I have to ask, you say you don't care about Europe becoming less white, how do you feel about America becoming less native American,? going by your logic you must not care about that either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    It’s beyond ironic that a dissembling racist who hides behind semantics and the definition of words would post the above with a straight face. Just come out and say what you mean. None of the racists on these threads ever have the sack to simply say exactly what they mean. And then get outraged when called out on their snaking, weasel worded ways.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    You mean from now on or when the Europeans committed genocide?


    There’s an obvious difference between immigration and mass slaughtering natives. The poster I’m replying to is parroting line from the Great Replacement theory.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I saw it on rte news when I was visiting my parents. It’s the same old mantra every time with these sorts. They’re expecting 24/7 livestream from Dutch farmers big brother style. Personally I’m more concerned about Ireland than the Dutch farmers, another weird obsession they have.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    If there was blanket coverage of the Dutch farmers, they’d complain that it was a smoke screen for something they weren’t covering in Ireland.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What do you think is a happening to the food? Do you believe that no one is eating it?

    https://www.npr.org/2022/07/07/1110219180/record-number-of-people-worldwide-are-moving-toward-starvation-u-n-warns

    the cries of racism are amazing considering this kind of policies could very well result in people starving to death in low income countries



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭Augme



    I dont think the availability of steak in the third world is the primary reason for starvation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Deleted



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The genetic heritage of those people will change over time, that’s what you really mean. Europe is getting less white, I don’t care about that, only a bigot would care about it.

    If Africa was becoming less Black, or Asia becoming less Asian I'm quite sure the narrative would be somewhat different, especially in the case of the former. This so called "diversity" stuff is almost entirely one way. IE it's White "christian" European cultures that are seemingly in such dire need of it. Cultures outside of that are apparently grand and certainly in no need of extra White "diversity".

    There's a strong bias, even fetish of sorts around darker skin and on both sides too, though pretty much only among White European culture(and their colonies). Asians and Africans in their own neck of the woods not nearly so much and can have quite different positions that would make the Right On's toes curl. The Right see "Black" at the top of the tree of concerns, of "replacement" and all that guff and you're some sort of "traitor" for not pointing that out. The Right On see them at the top of the tree of added "value" and you're a "bigot" for pointing that out.

    We already see this in Ireland, even over a much shorter period of time compared to the rest of "multicultural" Europe.. Of the inward migration to Ireland over the last twenty odd years the vast majority have been White Europeans in background, yet the Right and the Right On focus on the tiny minority of Black inward migration(under 2% last time I checked). Indeed the number of Ukrainians that have come into Ireland in the last four months are about the same number of Black Africans who have come here in twenty five years. We have Black History month, yet the Poles don't get a wet Tuesday in November and there are over three times the number of them.

    And European(and IndoEuropean) is a collection of ethnicities with a shared history and genetic heritage, even down to the bones that goes back to the mesolithic, neolithic and agricultural revolution and beyond and even further back than that. If someone is a Native European they have archaic human admixture that is quite distinct from native African and Native Asian, who have their own mix going on. Those are roots going back over 40,000 years in all cases. A pathologist or archaeologist can look at a skull and make a remarkably accurate call on the once owner being African, Asian or European. Oh and ethnicities have indeed gone extinct. There aren't a lot of Picts knocking around today are there?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,846 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    European is not an ethnicity. Either is African to be fair


    Good luck with that if you head over to America and tell the "Black" people they can't call themselves African-American



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    If Africa was becoming less Black, or Asia becoming less Asian I'm quite sure the narrative would be somewhat different, especially in the case of the former. This so called "diversity" stuff is almost entirely one way. IE it's White "christian" European cultures that are seemingly in such dire need of it. Cultures outside of that are apparently grand and certainly in no need of extra White "diversity".


    Actually no it wouldn’t.


    I don’t see increased diversity as a goal, I see it as inevitable. I also don’t believe it’s wrong. Unlike the person accusing me of being in a death cult, willing to destroy future generations of “Europeans”.


    Are you accusing me of being part of this “Right on”? If so, you’re wrong. I’m not the one focused on skin colour or genetic heritage. I couldn’t care less about it in fact. The Europeans who follow after us will be different because of inward migration. That’s neither good or bad, it just is. To care either way is to give relative values to different ethnic groups, only a bigot would do that.


    Then there’s this point of culture. Does our culture become worse because of inward migration? That’s a whole other debate.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Why is one genetic identity more important than another to you?'

    Are you familiar with Charles Darwin's writings?

    If a group doesn't care about continuing their own genetic lineage then the cause of their apathy is, objectively, a pathology.

    If anti-racism justifies Irish people to suppress their fertility then it is a belief/ideology which is maladaptive for survival end of.

    Like Navajo tribe members drinking themselves to death on a reservation, something has gone very wrong if people are demoralised into effective chosen sterility.

    The scope of this problem goes way beyond a forum discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,846 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I don’t see increased diversity as a goal, I see it as inevitable. I also don’t believe it’s wrong. Unlike the person accusing me of being in a death cult, willing to destroy future generations of “Europeans”.


    Ironically, to some extent, "diversity" depends on maintaining differences. A TV program is "diverse" if you have a white person, a black person and some Asian people. It's not diverse if it has an Italian, a French, Irish, English etc. (See yer wan who wrote "Friends" going on about it recently).

    But if everything just gets mixed then you actually won't have those distinctions. If you were frozen in time and came back in 1000 years and every person was just some random mix of European/Middle-Eastern/Asian/African sure you couldn't have "diversity" (as currently understood/used) any more. The same was as the "Friends" cast are now not considered diverse as they were all the "same".



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    True enough.


    The elimination of cultures is a bigger worry than the homogenisation of ethnicities to me. Over the last 40 years, Ireland is a fine example of what can happen to a small culture overwhelmed by larger neighbours. Irish kids speak more like Americans, referring to the “moms”, than they do my parents generation. This isn’t because of immigration though, it’s because of media consumption.


    This also includes the worst parts of US culture: the racism and bigotry. Irish people arguing about Europeans being “replaced”. For a long time we were looked at as “other” by white supremacists. Now they want us on board as good white people. I honestly wonder why that is.


    I love cultural identities. I find them fascinating, how they developed and how varied they can be. It’s sad that we are losing them. But we can work hard to maintain them without being bigots IMO.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I love how birth-rates reducing to below replacement levels in "modern" Western nations is being hand-waived away with the notion that "shure there's plenty of people in the rest of the world to fill the gaps" - apparently straight out of the Simon Coveney/FG playbook for population management/increase!

    That may be true from a sheer numbers point of view but fails to take into account, or place any value on, the "minor" sticking point the wants of the people already living there. The reasons people in this country aren't having kids, or having fewer and later, is because of things like the very high costs of living, lack of affordable or suitable housing, the work-life INbalance, and shift in attitudes towards relationships generally, and the pushing of notions that "we" are a burden and responsible for the plight of these poorer nations through our NOT living like they do but enjoying the benefits of our efforts, but that we are also burden on the planet itself - that's a lot of guilt to be pushing!

    Also, people (especially in Ireland) WANT to feel part of a collective, with common ideologies, ideals, values, culture and history. As Wibbs pointed out above, it's only in the West that these things are now being pushed as "bad" and needing diversification/multiculturism - I dare say that if you suggested that Africa was "too black" or efforts should be made to make it more multicultural that the responses would be VERY different! This same WANT to be part of a common group extends to those other countries too, or to the communities that they form in other nations.

    That presents problems in itself when those 2 cultures are just too different - be it for religious reasons, or differing views of what is right and wrong or acceptable, or because some of the new arrivals see what the locals have and feel an entitlement to it purely because they're here now and using their minority or economic backgrounds to try and justify it (backed up by well-funded NGO groups) rather than hard work, integration and contribution. Indeed, the narrative seems to be that we should protect and value these differences at the expense of our own which causes still more problems!

    Ultimately what you end up by trying to force a multicultural society like this is in fact MORE division, MORE resentment, and MORE conflict. That then leads to far more serious issues of REAL racism (not the "everything is an -ist or -ism" nonsense we see now) and from both sides, ghettoisation, discrimination, and far deeper social and economic issues.

    It's a self-defeating fantasy that has failed anywhere it's been tried so far and it'll be no different here when we get maybe another decade or two down the line.

    What instead should happen is managed immigration and not being afraid to turn people away when necessary, coupled with a shift towards encouraging those already here (migrants and natives alike) to actually integrate into the existing society and culture we have, which - political weakness aside for a moment - is actually pretty good. We also need to give our own citizens the opportunities that are key to this - to build a stable and secure life for themselves, to give them the chance to form relationships and have children more in their timeline - not when they can afford the mortgage payments, etc.

    And we absolutely should not be afraid to appreciate, value or defend our right to our society and cultural values either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You might want to look up the word "or" when you're cracking open that dictionary.

    "1 : a native or inhabitant of Europe. 2 : a person of European descent."

    versus your new salvage a point defintion  "European is anyone who currently lives in Europe."

    Still trying to change word definitions to salvage some sort of point. Do you think anyone buys into that guff at this stage? You can't counter the substance of the issue so are left with this carry on. Good stuff. 👍️



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Seriously, you interact with that guy?

    Just one look at his avatar and I'm like nope....



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    I’m not the one arguing word definitions. I want to argue substance but you’re the on copying and pasting dictionary definitions. It’s pathetic.


    This began with my asking you to be less obtuse. Google obtuse. Then do the opposite of that. Then we can have a debate.


    It’s hilarious this time because the sentence “a native or inhabitant of Europe” contains 100% of the people living in Europe. I can’t even see how you’re trying to argue that.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What’s wrong with my avatar exactly? It’s a bonobo. I love bonobos, they are my favourite of the great apes.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Yea a common theme. Say what you see; my friend say what you see



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Culture is a defining part of ethnicity. You seem to be using enthnicity as a "race" marker. I don't use race as a definition, simply because it's a highly dubious one. I prefer populations based on shared genetic history, which roughly follows obvious "race" groupings. As for culture I am quite happy to say I'm culturally biased. I most certainly don't believe in what I see as the fashionable BS of cultural equivalence where there's an equal weighting for all and everyone gets a prize for showing up. That's not based on skin colour either. Look at Irish culture. 60 years ago Irish culture while there are positives to be found, was in so many ways inferior to Irish culture of today. Same "race". As for inward migration into Irish culture of today. I don't see it as particularly wise to import, or worse actively celebrate the importation of religious and conservative cultures that are as backward as, or moreso in some cases than ours of 60 years ago. The hope that somehow the same cultures will magically and organically absorb the positive changes of the host culture is a vain hope indeed and one that has proven to not be the case in other so called multicultural European nations. If anything, such positions harden over time.

    And this diversity wasn't nor isn't inevitable. In Ireland it came about because of a perfect storm of a jus solis loophole and a major upswing in the economy of the late 90's. If neither had been present we wouldn't be nearly so "diverse" today. Add in a total couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery reaction by our authorities, mostly based on misguided charity and a need to be the best boy in the class looking for pats on the back for being so "progressive". One that continues down to today, where shortsighted moronic policies even in the face of homegrown moronic mismanagement are not making things any better.

    On the other hand beyond this White European politic, Japan a non European solidly first world nation that has had economic booms didn't become "diverse" as some sort of inevitablity. Neither has China for that matter. They have actively made steps to make sure it hasn't become one and the "natives" are most certainly the drivers of those societies. Oh they both have certainly absorbed a lot from non local cultures, majority European cultures, but they didn't absorb actual people from those cultures. That goes for pretty much all East Asian nations and cultures. Similar goes for many Eastern European nations who aren't nearly so diverse as their Western counterparts and have actively gone against this trend.

    Most of this this "diversity is inevitable" stuff comes from the same source as your noted importation of European-American culture. It was "inevitable" there simply because it's an ex European colony founded and sustained for generations on immigration either willingly, semi willingly in steerage, or in the hulls of slave ships. They are stuck with it, buggered it up and did so even more than human nature would bugger it up anyway and have since the 1950's and 60's tried to keep a lid on the situation they found themselves in, and spun this "melting pot" and "diversity is great" stuff. And fifty plus years since MLK had a dream much of it is still mired in dreamland. The same stuff has been taken up by those European nations who by virtue of their overseas colonies also became stuck with it. Ireland doesn't fit in either category. Neither does a nation like Sweden.

    And you're most certainly more under the banner of the Right On. And that's fine, but it's a tad disingenuous to suggest you're not. I'm more old style Liberal, even quite lefty liberal, but would be considered by some as right wing for questioning the IMHO failed political experiment of multiculturalism and diversity. And as for being colour blind, unfortunately history, current and past in every single case of nations struggling with diversity quite clearly demonstrates that the majority aren't colour blind and not just the palefaces and this increases divisions.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    luckily I’m not your friend. I see a picture of a young bonobo. I’m a big fan of bonobos.


    What do you see?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    What I see is a really insightful post by wibbs, you should follow that up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    If the welfare scrounging farmers don't want government intervention, that's fine, we'll get rid of the CAP. It costs €59 billion a year.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    admittedly this post is an interesting insight into your views on multiculturalism. But I don’t see how it’s a response to my post.


    By modern standards I would indeed be considered “right on” or “progressive “ or “woke”. I don’t have a problem with that. I have a problem with you then ascribing certain beliefs or opinions to me that I never expressed. I don’t fetishise skin colour. I don’t care about it at all. Its not a political position or a crusade, it’s just what I don’t care about.


    Again, this started with me being accused of being part of “death cult” because I don’t care what colour future Europeans are. The whole thread has been derailed by me trying to understand what manner of monumental BS I was being accused of by a known bigot.


    Let’s debate multiculturalism some other time, but we will never agree.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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