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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,500 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    And what about the jobs going servicing these companies. The money they spend in the economy.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Not much good to the people being evicted and made homeless where I live.

    Our fertility rate is 1.7 per woman, below replacement and some seem to say they can't afford kids. We can't house our own citizens because the population has increased by 50% and our government of millionaires are clueless.

    English is saying 40k international visas this year. We are developing a society where our kids cannot afford to have kids and people come here to do low wage jobs because we refuse to pay a living wage to those doing those jobs. This makes it more difficult for our own citizens that don't own a house or inherit and are not paid over 100k per year.

    The country is a mess. I think this is where amadan is coming from. Less, as long as it doesn't include starvation, is not always worse... who knows? On one hand Socrates, citizen of the world, on the other hand peig saor.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,754 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    😂

    I think it's now official, this thread has completely lost the plot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    so your solution is to see the back of Meta and other MNCs, get rid of the young professional well paid people who work for them, will likely have children and in the meantime will pay a disproportionate amount of tax and spend heavily in the economy?

    nice plan, Batman



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,500 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    We pay virtually the highest minimum wage in Europe. We intend bring in a living wage of 12.5/ hour in the next two years I think. We have full employment virtually. The lads that are not working now never will no matter how much they get.

    The problem is we need more houses build. However most labour and skill involved travel in and out of Dublin every day.

    If you think taking 5-10 billion a year out of the nation exchequer will solve the problem you need a brain transplant.

    The UK has lower wages, lower minimum wage lower everything.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,042 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    They are banking on this metaverse direction as social media in its current state has peaked and on the way down. I think they will be the big one to fall in this downturn. They already made the biggest one day loss in history this year of 232bn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    All a man wants is to own a house and have a few acres for a couple of sheep and some spuds dug. All these fancy high paid tech jobs wouldn't even get you that. What does a person have to do in this country to own that beautiful dream.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Government of the last 10 years has being way to Dublin centred and that was down to the boom in the technology sector and Dublin city being seen as a silicon Valley type spot.

    My only fear now is that Ireland has became to reliant on these tech companies interms of construction jobs like data centres and office builds as well as the jobs themselves. Dublin city already seeing vast empty office spaces that were built, data centres now are nearly maxed out in terms of energy availability, and interest rates rising looks like it will hit the tech sector and growth. The knock on affect is job losses not only in tech but construction, materials and engineering services too. That's a big part of Ireland economy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Remembering all the Covid-era walks I had thru Spencer Dock and how that place had "bubble" written all over it. To be fair if all the DART improvements actually materialise it'll be a good location, but for now it just looks like it'll turn soulless just like Parkwest.

    Trying to at least be vaguely on topic 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    went to view a property…good apartment but in shambles..was rented out and the owner owns 2-3 properties up north and this one in south..

    no white goods in kitchen and unfurnished..an open boiler with pipes visible in one of the bedroom..soiled carpet ! Possibly tenants left it in a mess so they got rid of everything.

    Agent said owner wants out from all his property in this boom before things go south..very honest lady 😅😅 !

    The apartment will get sold purely because many renters are on notice and will have to buy something ! Thats your demand right there which is outpacing supply



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    I didn't propose a solution. I outlined the current situation. Not enough houses.

    We have two neighbouring families, both working and both being evicted into homelessness because of a lack of supply and astronomical prices. If Gardai, nurses, teachers, public sector employees or shop assistants cannot afford to live in Ireland despite a high minimum wage it surely doesn't matter to them what Facebook is doing. Home ownership in the 25-34 bracket has more than halved since 2006.

    To be honest, I'm just back from two weeks in South West Ireland and it's like a different country. Unfortunately, we have to live within a radius of Dublin as WFH is not possible for one of us. Dublin is an absolute shqthole and the one acre and a few spuds seems to be beyond our reach here.


    Surely reducing international visas for 2022 while the housing crisis is a crisis would make sense, instead it's increasing from 16,275 to 40,000.

    It's been a great blessing to attract so many new people to Ireland but even for those people coming here now and getting fleeced for accommodation, it's surely not great.

    We seem to be entering an era where people are praying for Facebook to collapse rather than enjoying life in Ireland. Where public sector workers cannot afford to buy a house and may face homelessness as they are too poor to be able to exist in our country. That doesn't seem great...

    Anyway, I getting off my soapbox, maybe I'm saying the wrong things and am brain dead as bass reeves suggests.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think that the number 1 most important existential issue facing the country, by a distance (not including climate change that we as a nation can’t do anything about) is an ageing population. A birth rate well below replacement. A pension time bomb amid a falling tax take. We need to make sure we attract and retain high numbers of young professionals, through encouragement of the right kind of immigration, the bedrock of which is the skilled international jobs to bring them in to.

    we need to build accommodation, not try (activity or passively) to reduce demand. The latter is a recipe for disaster



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    Housing almost certainly a factor here; teachers leaving Dublin due to high cost of living. Who can realistically replace these teachers without housing costs dropping materially?

    This is just a sensational state of affairs.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    It's the same story with nurses, hospitals simply unable to fill junior positions despite huge amounts of funding allocated for new posts. Similar story with Gardaí, resignations in Dublin amongst junior Gardaí are trending well above the national average.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    That approach anecdotally seems to be neutering a large proportion of society that works hard is responsible but feels that they cannot afford children because they cannot buy a house.

    Singapore faced similar problems in 2013 and hit a fertility low of 1.1 babies per person in 2020.

    I'm not sure if pricing out a cohort that works hard but is now not remunerated enough to have a stable home and thus exits the reproduction game is a good idea.

    Post edited by mcsean2163 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    RTE reporting on the contraction in construction due to price pressures

    "Severe price pressures forced the Irish construction sector to contract marginally in June, the first time it has reduced in size since April of last year when the pandemic was still restricting activity.

    The BNP Paribas Real Estate Ireland Construction Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) found new orders fell at a sharp and accelerated pace.

    Purchasing activity was also squeezed and staffing levels stagnated.

    "June has been a watershed month for construction activity," said John McCartney, Director and Head of Research at BNP Paribas Real Estate Ireland."

    ...more here

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0708/1309227-high-prices-force-contraction-in-construction-sector/



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Good to see a response to rising costs, now if we could do the same for the costs of land, margin, white collar grab, competent regulation, professional fees selling costs etc.

    We need not wait for direct labour (the most value add component of costs) to take action. Materials have fallen sharply since that survey was taken, labour will follow suit when the recession kicks in.

    The survey is contradictory to the results of one of our builders last week who said that rising costs were offset by changing work practices and they even increased there margin.

    Again looks like action when we feel like it to reduce costs. Look at the other far more damaging costs and we will se progress



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    It's amazing how they can forecast and increase the supply of labour at the stroke of a pen. Do they use the same forecasts for the Housing requirements or is that a separate set of forecasts

    60k leaving certs per year

    40k non EU migrants

    ?? EU migrants

    35k refugees

    2 rental properties available in the 16 largest urban centres in the country that come within general HAP guidelines for those areas



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Further constraints on supply is the last thing we need and certainly won't help bring down prices. The amount of phases delayed / deferred in developments in recent weeks is notable. The demand is still there (houses effectively sold before the open days due to estate agents managing bookings), it's the increases in costs that is causing mayhem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    More rewards for people who leave their properties empty. Will this encourage more to leave their properties empty?

    Surely the best way to fund this would be to introduce a compulsory selling order on the owners of empty properties and for the 30k grant to be deducted from the sale price and granted to the purchaser on return of the property to a usable condition.

    Tax waste

    Reward work

    Does that sound sustainable, rather than the 40 years of BS our population have been putting up with




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭enricoh


    In the UK their is extra pay for civil servants living in London. I've never heard a mention of it here for Dublin, even with the new pay talks at the minute I haven't heard the unions pushing it.

    It seems a no brainer to me that any extra is to be spent on a Dublin allowance - e.g say 20% extra for those living there n 10% extra for those commuting in



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    My instinctive reaction to this is "Define Vacant?". This could well be a Trojan horse for HTB for second hand sales. If a house needs a bit of work but is still habitable does it qualify? Who's the arbiter of whether 30k gets paid or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Really on top of the other pay rises you do know the rest of us have to pick up that tab, thanks but no thanks the public sector employees are running the same race and jumping the same hurdles when it comes to "living somewhere" as those of us in the private sector with their bonus of their guaranteed pensions, pay increments and job security giving them a very healthy head start, so if they want to live in Dublin that is a personal choice and as a tax payer I think it would be very wrong for us to cover their choice by paying them another 20%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Implement the system I outlined and all of this need not matter. A 0 cost (outside of the administrative side) solution to getting empties back in use



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    €30k barely scratches the surface of any substantive renovation work these days. You might be able to cover cosmetic work. Maybe some internal insulation at best. That’s about it



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,207 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The only reason I can think of for there not being and Irish equivalent of the "london weighting" for public sector workers based in Dublin, Cork or Galway is that their unions must be controlled by those residing rurally. The oft-touted "Garda married to a Nurse or Teacher" that can't afford to buy a home in Dublin helps push the wage demands of all public servants when the reality is that the same couple would be extremely comfortable, if not actually quite well off, living in Leitrim, Mayo, Roscommon, Tipperary etc.

    It's deeply unfair and the above is an entirely predictable consequence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭SmokyMo


    From my POV, friends who are middle class cant afford children. most are in their mid 30s. Friends who would be considered 'working' class, have 2 - 3 kids from different partners and paying 40e per month for a corpo 3 bed. Ireland system is designed to encourage this behavior. I feel sorry for front line staff, nurses, firemen, teachers.. I see education being next big crises.

    We need 40k permits because we have low skill labor shortage.



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