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NZ Tour 2022 - Māori June 29th, NZ July 2nd, NZ July 9th, Māori July 12th, NZ July 16th, KO 8.05am

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Heffernan? Heffernan? Take off the green-tinted glasses. Herring is miles ahead of him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭thegreycity


    It's not really congested for Leinster. Harry is constantly injured. Frawley just needs to get ahead of Ross to get consistent game time at 10. Once you're the backup to Sexton you get a lot of minutes for Leinster. And whoever cements that role next season will be the starting 10 the following season when Sexton retires.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I'd imagine Earls at 13 instead of JOB there is an indication he'll be #23 at the weekend. If he's to cover centre off the bench the thinking probably was that it'd be good to get him some time there.

    Not sure about that call myself. The trouble with Earls at 13 is that his handling skills crumble under pressure. He can throw some beautiful passes under no pressure, but it all goes to pieces when the opposition defence is in his face.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Petition for Sky Sports to use the Kiwi commentary again on Saturday instead of Conor MacNamara



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I don't think Ringrose has been officially ruled out yet?

    Either way, I think Aki is well worth a run, but I really hope they play him at 13



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Yeah but has Larmour been involved under Farrell? Can’t remember off the top of my head if he has really.

    Coombes would want more than starts against Fiji and Italy though?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Actually think heffernan is a huge liability at set piece but he’s much more in line with what Sheehan and kelleher offer and the fact he wasn’t involved today suggests to me he could be involved on Saturday



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    hes was officialy confirmed with concussion, meaning he will be automatically stood down for 12 days min



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    That's very easy to say that he just needs to get ahead of the Byrnes but the reality is Frawley has now started more games for Ireland at 10 than Leinster in the last 12 months and potentially 24 months..

    For his own International aspirations 12 is a pretty congested position in the short term with Henshaw and Aki.

    10 might be best opportunity to get irish game time. ( with a reduced panel for the 23 WC compared to this tour he is now a very live option for being 2nd/3rd choice out half covering centre with Carberry also covering FB)

    It might just need to be a conversation he has with the Leinster coaching team to see where they see him best utilised.

    I'm sure Leo and Stuart are wondering what they do with all their options next year. To make it more interesting going forward they have just added 2 new 10's to their academy in Tector and Pendergast.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    larmour played in all 5 6natiosn games last season, and started 3 games at full back in 2020



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,821 ✭✭✭b.gud


    I don't think he's ever started at 13 for Ireland has he? I'm not against it just thinking it's never happened before with him and Henshaw/Ringrose in the centre. I'd imagine the only way he's start at 13 would be if McCloskey was the other centre



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,736 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Any chance Larmour for Lowe on Saturday ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    What use are they? You can just go down to the local offie and get all you want. You want something you can keep.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    That’s fair enough, have completely forgotten about him playing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    strange game from Christoph, called the maul penalty in the first half but never mentioned it being almost on the line when it occurred, then tries to argue that a player who didn’t even raise his hands to regather could have actually regathered the ball.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't think it suits him either. In the first Maori game I felt Josh Ioane exposed him for pace on the outside a few times, and Rieko very nearly did in the wide channel early in the second half on Saturday too.

    Robbie defends excellently at thirteen, and Bundee gives the most impact from 12. That should be the centre pairing for Saturday.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He wasn't involved today because of the concussion he sustained in the 1T, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭WJL


    I didn't see the game but great to get another win. Great for morale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Good win. Māori didn't play the conditions - I think both test sides will have noted that for Saturday.

    I particularly enjoyed the NZ comms as Ireland wound down the yellow card clock with scrums. It's also wonderful the way they prefer to say "it was technically illegal" rather than "it was illegal" when the fouling player wears black.

    2:2 - it's all set up now!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    One of my biggest complaints about the sport, constant over coaching but that was something else entirely. He must have been on it for 6 or 7 seconds. They make it so difficult at times for themselves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Talk of building depth - we go with our strongest 15, 23...hard to see any changes here. Maybe 1?

    Also, I think we're building massive depth right now, depsite making very little un-enforced changes. These MAB games are serious experience. And the squad being in camp for this amount of time has a massive impact on togertherness, experience of pressure & squad limitations, understanding of game-plan etc. It's invaluable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I think from the Subs/lack of subs today we can assume barring late injury/ covid the same 15 will start apart from Aki in for Ringrose at 12.

    This frees up a slot at 23 and it's a coin flip maybe for larmour over Earls.

    Larnour finished his tries well today but made plenty of errors.

    Might be a change at 18 too depending on Bedhlams injury.

    I think everything else will be as you were. The likes of Coombes might have to wait to get his chance in November



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah it was infuriating, and a direct contrast to a similar situation earlier in the game where he told Joe McCarthy to take hands off and then (rightly) penalised him.

    It felt at the time like was being lenient because the game looked over at that point, or at least I hope that's what he was thinking, but it's poor either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,830 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    They're unlikely to change Lowe without adding a kicking option IMO. Though was interesting to see Larmour's boot used so much, looked like he has added distance too?

    Frawley also had a monster clearance off a NZ turnover



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Larmour ought to be starting ahead of Lowe imo, but I imagine Lowe's boot counts for a lot in Farrell's gameplan. Would like to see Coombes make the bench, not that I think Conan has been poor at all. I'd be tempted to drop Doris tbh. Frawley should bench ahead of Carbery, no doubt about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭almostover


    Would love to see Coombes there in place of Conan. Conan hasn't done anything wrong but Coombes Is lethal from close quarters and that could make the difference in the last 15 mins if we get a chance near the NZ line. I'm particularly happy to see Timoney develop into a real option at 7. We need high quality backup for JvdF, who is at this time the form 7 in world rugby. Lots of backrow options of high quality which is great. We're caught at prop and no.10 in that regard.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You'd drop Doris?

    He was one of our best players last Saturday and a potential MotM.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It's not a criticism, i don't think we would lose anything starting Conan. He's been consistent all season, even if he hasn't been as prominent as last year.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I think Conan has had an okay year, but for me Doris at his best offers more. I know he isn't always at that best, but I think the All Blacks would be delighted to see him out of the XV given the impact he had last week.

    I think it'll be unchanged if O'Mahony is good to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,821 ✭✭✭b.gud


    I could be wrong but I thought I saw him standing with some of the other players not involved in todays game during some of the half time interviews


    Inpho has him listed as present in this picture. It's pretty small but I think I can see him over towards the left of the photo https://inpho.ie/media/k_xzXHwqxuUQSABngnt7Lg..a?ts=7OV8_n3mW9csZZInl7UudZbIGMKIX3AgG5v67EN3G1c.a



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I think Larmour had developed a decent enough clearing kick a few years ago. If I'm remembering correctly he had a few decent kicks on the Australia tour.

    Agree that Lowe will be retained primarily because of his boot and also his carrying. Thought he played well on Sat despite the fumble and wild pass. They really should use him for kicking the pens to touch on the RHS.

    I'd have Larmour at 23. I think Farrell will pick Earls now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    A dogged win this morning where Ireland righted a lot of things they got very wrong.

    Particular vindication goes to the half backs. I myself was extremely critical of Frawley especially and I do think the performance justified criticism. But similarly he dusted himself down and this was a performance that garnered praise. Exceptionally solid showing from him ticking many boxes. Even giving Joey a chance to take notes on how to tackle (having said this he did miss 3 tackles of his own) Casey put in a good mature performance and can yet prove my doubts wrong about his kicking which was very good today. Was given a good platform and gave a good platform.

    Front row showed up well. Loughman may yet turn out to be a genuine option going forward. Certainly doesn't let you down. Very assured hands. TOT was very solid at scrum time today and didn't get flustered. Scannell had some great moments in the breakdown but his throwing was quite wayward. Some were system failings. Some were bad throws. There were 2 EXCEPTIONAL takes by Treadwell to save his blushes

    Take a bow Kieran Treadwell too. I called for Ross Molony over you and I can safely say that would not have been a wise decision. I was wrong. Supremely good effort really showing a grunt about him and leveraging his size in the right ways. Called the lineout reasonably well too. A real find (again) this series and another bone fide option for us at lock.

    McCarthy and Prendergast I'm putting in the same category of this tour largely passed them by and neither gave a proper account of what they're capable of. But they're both so young and inexperienced they'll be much better for this tour and improve. Credit to Joe when he's not giving away stupid penalties he's having huge moments. His ability on both sides of the ball is better than a lot of people I've seen his age. I reckon the coaches have asked him to back himself and he just needs work on when and where to have those big impacts. I'm predicting huge things for him in the near future. Prendergast never really got going tonight and 8 tackles 4 missed is just not a good enough return for a back row at this level.

    Coombes is a gifted player that does not come along all too often. I have seen more than a few articles wondering what more he has to do to displace the test starters. I can tell you in a word. Defence. Full credit to his effort because he put 19 and 16 tackles in respectively in the 2 games. But he missed 4 tackles in each game also. Don't get me wrong. It could be an anomaly. I dug down into his stats before with Munster and he has had some clean sheets. But there was also blots on his copy book with 3/4/5 tackles missed some games.

    In the 2 games against the All Blacks, the starting backrow missed *no tackles at all*.

    You have to go back to the Argentina game in November to find the last tackle Doris missed for Ireland. As long as they're competing against each other - Coombes needs to get more consistent there.

    Other places on the pitch, Earls played like a man whose spent the majority of his 100 odd caps with no man outside him. I thought he played about as well as we'd expect him to at 13.

    Larmour probably did his chances at test inclusion no harm. After a patchy season it's good to see him getting back into form. The PT and yellow was correct and unlucky. Milliseconds in it. The fine margins of test rugby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    But I reserve a post of its own for Michael Bent!!!

    For years a truly unsung hero of Leinster Rugby. Never let us down on the good days and the bad.

    Answers the call to step up and step in after A YEAR OF RETIREMENT.

    Fairy tale stuff. I'm kind of gutted for him that he didn't get to pack down a scrum because I know he'd still boss it.

    Delighted he gets a send off like that. What a gent



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Lowe has more than a boot over Larmour. On attack, he is like an extra inside centre. Draws, passes, carries in the tight, clears rucks, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'd agree with you, but I don't think he's been in good form this tour. Perhaps because of injury. Larmour has been pretty excellent the last few months, and might offer a beneficial counter attacking element



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Lowe had a couple of howlers last week but he has credit in the bank, and his ceiling remains a lot higher than Larmour imo. 3 carries and a clearout in the phases leading up to Porter's second try. This is the sort of work you sacrifice if you get rid of him.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My initial impression was he'd had a poor game, but when I watched it back Sunday morning even his bad moments were a bit overblown. The two noteworthy ones were the knock on off the uncontested scrum in their 22, but that's a slip up that can happen to any player, and then the big skip pass he attempts in the 2nd Half that he overshoots into touch. On the second one we still had a penalty advantage and came back for it.

    He conceded two soft penalties - but the one for pulling back Tupaea in midfield wasn't a terrible penalty to concede.

    Like you said, he had some good moments, carrying and clearing rucks. He brings a level of physicality that we sometimes lack in the back three for me.

    For Leinster and Ireland I love his ability to carry hard back into defenders; feel he always gets the gain line. The ability to have a huge clearing left foot is also a significant plus.

    I know what Larmour can bring, and for that reason, I'd have him in the 23 shirt this weekend, even though I think it's likely Farrell will go for Earls there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,449 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    I did notice Lowe was being used a reasonable amount at first receiver as well, particularly in the second half I think it was. Taking it at pace straight into contact.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Lowe was directly involved 5 times in the build up to Porters second try. I doubt there’s another winger in Ireland who gets involved as much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Does anyone else have the niggling feeling that we're peaking a year early again? I'm reading Eddie Jones' book atm, and he basically said that right after the 2018 game at Twickenham, he knew that we had peaked and would be on a downward curve from then on. I know it's kind of a joke that's thrown at us on twitter and stuff and we laugh it off, but is there truth to it?

    We've been on an upward curve since March 2021. And I look at the season we've had, thrashing Japan and Argentina and beating NZ in November, having a pretty good 6N and nearly beating France in Paris, and now beating NZ in NZ. It's hard to see how we can keep getting better for another 15 months. Not to mention the age profile of some of our key players. Sexton (37), POM (33) Murray (33) Healy (34). Sexton and POM in particular are playing brilliant rugby, but what are the chances they'll still be playing at that level in 15 months? I'd say very unlikely.

    Are we doing it again? I'm happy about the results we've been getting, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been on my mind. And if so, what can we do to fix it? Do we take a step back in November, leave out our older players, strip back our game and look to start again so we hit our peak at the world cup? I don't really know. But it does feel awfully similar to 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I reckon we'll know more at the 6nations. Obviously, Sexton is key and that's a concern. Peaking early is not really my concern. I think in 2019 we were exposed a one dimensional team. Right now, we are attempting a vastly different style.

    One positive at the moment is Treadwell. He's been brilliant. I'd have no qualms with him starting for Ireland. In that light, I think Baird is outside the box. He needs to play well to get back into the squad. Loughman may be a great find! I think he will be capped in the autumn. So there's added talent. The ability to continue to harness and spot talent is a great look for Farrell.

    I believe the lads on the fringes of the squad will keep the regular lads on their toes. Previous sides didn't really have that to worry about! Farrell has rejigged the system and the players are buying into it! The long term outlook is good too! He's given lads like McCarthy, Prendergast and Lowry opportunities to be involved. Already, we see the next generation making a mark!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You'd have to say he's a pretty canny selector. How many times now has he picked someone who wasn't first choice for his province with it turning out really well? JGP was behind McGrath at Leinster, obviously. Treadwell benches for Ulster with Alan O'Connor starting. Similarly, O'Toole has generally been back up for Moore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,450 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    A week ago the wheels had fallen off now we’re peaking too early, it’s a fickle world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭Roxxers


    agree can't peak without proper replacement front 5 and oh , same shite each wc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    We're not peaking early. We haven't played particularly well this tour - which is a good thing - but we're still getting the results.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    its definitely a possibility, but i think the team is currently nowhere near their ceiling and if they continue developing their game as they have been, i can see the next rwc coming at a perfect time tbh.

    and as good as some of the results have been in the last year, context has to be taken into account for all of the bigger ones. not to be pessimistic for the sake of it, but in the 3 big wins of this season (NZ,Eng,NZ), Ireland have had massive amounts of luck/circumstance/whatever on their side

    NZ Nov 21 - NZ at the end of a ridiculously long time away from home due to covid restrictions, fatigue etc,.

    Eng 6N 22 - early red card, Ireland poor for most of the game and only kick on when late in the game when England looked exhausted

    NZ July 22 - early(ish) red card, terrible discipline from NZ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Indeed! We are getting better, I think. High tempo seems to suit our forwards. I give credit to the coaching, they've taken the forwards on to another level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,770 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We also haven't fielded our best possible side imo. Balacoune, Coombes, Frawley, Lowry are lads I expect to be pushing hard for selection. Along with a good few other lads in the pack. I think we can be better yet .



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