Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Hotblack Desiato · 09-07-2022 11:46am

Their negotiating strategy is either very, very cunning or very, very stupid...

09-07-2022 4:59pm

fair level of complicity here. each side knows the fairly narrow range of end result and each side knows that there has to be seen to be difficult negotations in order to get there so that they can come back to the nation (govt) or the unions members (unions) and say "we had to scrap for that and its not going to get any better than the deal agreed.

so this middle piece is all performance.

its far too cosy. the union is as terrified of escalation and action as the govt so theyll work harder to avoid that than they will to guard their member's rights.

Galwayhurl · 12-07-2022 11:00pm

I'm losing patience.

Ollie321 · 12-07-2022 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119329379#Comment_119329379

You're not alone. The media reports about the inability to hire teachers in Dublin might spur on some action

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119329509#Comment_119329509

Don't think so its the same in every profession its not just the public sector suffering the inability to fill roles due to inflation and the high cost of living and lack of suitable accommodation.

Ollie321 · 13-07-2022 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330166#Comment_119330166

I don't disagree, but somehow teachers have a much greater media pull than other CS/PS staff

Hotblack Desiato · 13-07-2022 11:02am

The real prospect of their children spending hours a day in "free classes" or even being sent home softens the cough of a lot of PS bashers, that's why.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-07-2022 11:10am

From a letter in today's IT on the accommodation crisis...

Una Mullally makes two points which are, I think, worthy of serious attention. The first is that young teachers and other public servants cannot afford to live in Dublin. We’ll pass on decentralisation as a possible partial solution – we’ll always need teachers in Dublin, and, in any event, that bird has flown. But pending the introduction of solutions on the supply side which, it seems, everyone knows about, should we not do something on the demand side?

A teacher or a garda who has to live in Dublin faces far higher living costs than her compatriots in Drumshanbo. Should salaries not reflect that? Unions which have just concluded a campaign to eliminate a two-tier pay structure, which they were complicit in introducing, may baulk at the suggestion but it would appear to have some merit.

Apply opener to can of worms and turn handle... 😁

crinkley · 13-07-2022 11:15am

Personally I would fully support a dublin weighting for salary, similar to the uk and London.

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330524#Comment_119330524

How is this fair on the rest of the country that are not Dublin. Why should they subsidise your wage so you can work in Dublin. That is a personal choice. Last I checked the population outside of Dublin is 3/4 times bigger than population of Dublin so this will never be a runner in this country. So Teachers and the rest of the public sector have the same options us mere mortals in the private sector have, live a bit further out or sacrifice other areas of spend to live there.

HartsHat · 13-07-2022 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330186#Comment_119330186

Because for some reason people think of the CS in the abstract not as people who provide them with their social welfare, passports etc.

A week or two without either and they'd start to see the necessity of those Depts.

Ollie321 · 13-07-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330619#Comment_119330619

Again I completely agree.

jaffa20 · 13-07-2022 12:16pm

The unions must have some plan other than just waiting on the government to make the first move.

Aisling(",) · 13-07-2022 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330898#Comment_119330898

Leo (who is admittedly not always correct) said something about a response going back to the unions that'll be more favourable so I think somethings in the works. Hopefully soon, just saw the cost for my heating fuel is up 120% on last year so it'd be nice to know something extra is coming.

exitstageleft · 13-07-2022 1:14pm

It's really surprising that the unions aren't maintaining a presence in the media and building on the momentum that was there in June. The economic situation is still good but it's unlikely to improve. Now is surely the time to strike a deal.

I'd also like it to see it reflected in pay quickly. The bills have already gone up. A pay rise in December is just too late. I'd prefer a lower raise immediately, rather than 1% more next year.

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331180#Comment_119331180

not surprising at all. The government are telling the general public its ok inflation is temporary so only a few once off bits for the general public in the up coming budget so how stupid and ridiculous will it be for the unions and gov to give themselves a bigger payrise on something that they are cowing to everyone else is temporary. The jig is up as the other major issue is there is a recession on the way by the end of the year and with a huge amount of job losses coming in the private sector the money will simply not be there.

Peter Flynt · 13-07-2022 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330555#Comment_119330555

It is not the case that the unions were complicit in introducing a 2 tier scale but it is the case that they were complicit in not doing enough to prevent its continuation. INTO and the TUI do as the government tell them to do.

Peter Flynt · 13-07-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330524#Comment_119330524

My own view is that FF/FG and the vast majority of parents don't care if there is a teacher (qualified or not) present just as long as the schools are open.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-07-2022 2:04pm

It's funny how people automatically equate "schools" with "primary schools"

At second level, parents very much do care and not just in the LC years

Hotblack Desiato · 13-07-2022 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330613#Comment_119330613

So Dublin people don't deserve to have schools, healthcare or gardai.

Idiotic post.

DubLad69 · 13-07-2022 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119330613#Comment_119330613

Yes they do have the same options as everyone else to either live in Dublin and pay the high costs or move somewhere else and pay lower costs. It appears as though the issue is that they are choosing not to live in Dublin and as a result they are unable to recruit people to work in Dublin schools and offices.

If they are teachers (because that's who the article is about) aren't willing to do the work in Dublin on their current wages, then what can we do to get them to stay in Dublin apart from paying them a little extra to cover some of the additional costs.

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331452#Comment_119331452

So people in any other county but Dublin deserve to pay a higher rate of tax so a teacher, Guard or nurse can live in Dublin while everyone living in the real world lives where they can afford, go and do one. Its a personal choice that no one should be asked to pick up the check for, other than the person who lives there. If you want to live there pay for it yourself.

crinkley · 13-07-2022 3:19pm

That’s such a flawed argument, with that logic a school would never be built or a road repaired in Leitrim because the population is too small and other tax payers are subsidising it and people chose to live there so why should the tax payer contribute to basic needs of its citizens

JoeSexton · 13-07-2022 3:21pm

That's a very silly post. Have a think about it.

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331955#Comment_119331955

Its the same with every other profession both public and private, why should one profession be singled out? Do we move everyone out of Dublin and just let the public sector have it my god I have seen it all now guarnteed pensions, increments for nothing more than sitting on our hole and job security now we can move everyone out of Dublin and just slap the 400k odd Public sector workers into Dublin sure they are worth it David Ginola must be their leader. This kind of argument is phucking mental. The whole country is feeling the pinch with regards the price of housing and the cost of living, just because the ps have access to the media does not mean their need is more severe. What about Bus drivers, IT pros, pharmacists or coffee shop workers or any other phucking job that has to be done in Dublin?? Its been like this since the property market was born if you can afford it go for it if not then tough that is how this game is played dont expect someone else to pick up the tab of a life choice you have made, make your choice if Dublin cant get teachers then those coming out of college and who have access to mums and dads house will take your spot or Dublin parents will have to send their kids to school in the country and let them pick up the tab. Tax payers being asked to pick up this kind of sh1ts is just bananas when nearly 4/5ths of the population live outside the county in question.

Also its been noted on here how things are quiet with regards to the pay rises. Its because the numbers do not stack up and there is the mother of all recessions coming.

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331982#Comment_119331982

A school and / or road can be used by any tax payer looking to use them. A house being subsidised by everyone else for a teacher means the only person benefiting is the teacher so its a completely different argument and unworkable and unfair as there are plenty of people in both sectors who would like to live in Dublin but guess what , they cant afford it.

crinkley · 13-07-2022 3:47pm

But I’m never in Leitrim to use those facilities so how dare they get tax payer money for it. It’s just as ridiculous as your outrage that necessary roles shouldn’t be subsidised in some way to make them attractive. This happens in the private sector too, maybe you think some private companies shouldn’t offer heath care to their employees as you don’t get it.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-07-2022 3:47pm

Right, so pupils don't benefit from the work of a teacher?

Patients, nurse?

etc etc.

Do you really expect posts as idiotic as these to be taken seriously?

We were having a good thread here without the usual public sector bashing.

jaffa20 · 13-07-2022 3:56pm

The thread has already become derailed again after a few hours 😀

fliball123 · 13-07-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119332141#Comment_119332141

The pupil/patient should still benefit from a teacher/nurse who is not being subsidized for buying a house in Dublin, the nurse and teacher still gets paid a fairly good wage without this subsidy being given, how people on here cant see that this as as solution is unworkable and unaffordable is crazy. We would have Dublin schools almost exclusively for public sector workers and the very rich from the private sector only and everyone else gets to pay while commuting to Dublin for work. Thanks but no thanks

Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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