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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    ... but 70-80% of populations in all plant/animal groups in all regions of the planet have though. I can see you wont answer my question so your wasting our time here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not being able to advertise sales or sell in retail outlets effectively kills the commercial turf industry, no harm.

    As for smoky coal, everywhere in red was where is could be sold and burned and it was very much available for purchase. It was threats from the coal sellers to sue that forced the govt to legislate for turf and wet wood sales




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Reduction not died off. Due to farming and living space. How do you solve that. What do we eat where do we live. The headline figure is making out we killed 60% not that it's died off. I will wait with baited breath. We going to send UN peacekeepers to the rain forest to stop them farming ? for example. demolish half of China and India to rewild ? I could go on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The red is all outside the major population centres. Akin to banning Ivory back scratcher at this stage. I wager the air quality where it is burned is way better than the city centre where its not. Are they banning importation of peat



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,768 ✭✭✭buried


    It will be great to see the huge numbers of new police force members stationed back into the vast rural areas of Ireland in order to police this new green appeasement gimmick

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You got it ... we killed it off due to encroachment into their habitats and by polluting their habitats. Kill off enough and we start killing ourselves off, I would guess we are already seeing that in isolated pockets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Thankfully i live in a rural area and my turf is saved and garaged already. What is the alternative for those living in the affected areas? We know smokeless coal is utter rubbish for producing good heat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    How will you fix it. What's the solution. Wolves ? No suggestion that half of China and India parts of Africa need to go. Ireland has a totally man made landscape. Cut all the trees down 1k years odd ago. It's all fields now. Our natural beauty that is banged on about is 90 odd % man made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    burn it to produce a product that produces less energy. it's crazy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    There are no easy solutions other than reducing consumption of resources. How you do that is where the real challenge lies - but facing up to the reality of that challenge is the real issue. Ireland, despite what you may imagine has been one of the worst impacted areas for biodiversity loss over the critical period - we have turned our countryside into a virtual desert - the pursuit of agricultural productivity for export has been the primary cause.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    So what then, Rewild Ireland burn down the Rainforest import from there ? Not very carbon efficient. oh And to correct my mistake Ireland cut trees down early as 6k years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Anyone guess how would gas rationing be carried put for domestic customers?

    Would it be, say gas be supplied to the customers a few hours in the morning and few hours late evening?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Ireland had a relatively stable native forest cover, intensively managed but of high biodiversity value, until the famine. That was the point where native tree cover went to virtually zero.

    I personally think that we will not face the challenge and as a consequence we will not survive. What makes that a certainty is if we refuse to acknowledge the issue as been real.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    But the core issue remains do what. We either accept Ireland as is Or stop farming building. Outsource that to other countries that are less carbon efficient and environmentally friendly. No world wide call for China, India, Africa stop modernizing and reduce the population. Biodiversity as you have said is tied to encroaching on environments. Ireland did that pre famine. So we have been pretty static. Where as aforementioned countries are the most guilty. Seems the Idea is vague rewild damn the consequences in other parts of the world and tank the economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    As I said, there are no easy answers and I think we have already doomed ourselves to extinction. Its interesting to research the natural population curve of any highly successful species and it always involves a long steady state period followed by a precipitous decline as all resources are consumed and pollution/toxins build up. No highly successful species ever moderates its own population - circumstances do it for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So yet again Ryan talking an awful load of crap and wasting government time and resources with his idiotic nonsense on it going to be legal for those in some kind of makey uppey communities of 500 or less that existed only in his imagination to gift or sell turf where it would be illegal for such makey uppey communities with 501 or more to do so, and there were some here and on other threads defending the nonsense as if it was word from the Messiah. It was as comic farce as Monty Python`s Messiah in Life of Brian .

    When are ye going to learn the man is an idiot, surrounded by idiots (Green Party Junior Minister Joe O Brien being just the latest example two days ago), that yere blindly parroting makes ye look like equal idiots.

    This long drawn out nonsense on turf has done nothing other than show how completely out of touch and inept the Green Party is. We are back where we were before Ryan and Greens latest brainfart. Anybody that wishes can buy and burn turf. By taking the middle man retail sector out of the picture it would not surprise me that turf becomes cheaper and more than ever use them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I think all Intelligent species face the same issue. If they do not become Interstellar then they are doomed to die due to resources. That should be the focus as we will adapt till we run out of resources.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Shoog


    An intelligent species can choose to survive and do what is needed - that is truly the mark of intelligence. I personally don't think humans as a species are that intelligent - we behave in response to our genetic imperatives not following any long term strategy. We are clever but stupid.

    The proposition that we can leave the planet to survive - where and how exactly ? If we cannot survive in the benign environment of the earth - how do we expect to survive on the moon or mars ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's nothing about 500 population etc in the bill so 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Don`t tell me you missed Ryan wasting government time and resources on his moronic 500 plus and 500 communities based on nothing other than perhaps a little dream he had while napping rather than doing the job he is paid to do ?

    There were quite a few of his disciples on this thread and others parroting the nonsense. Real egg on the face stuff for all who were, which leaves them looking even more out of touch with reality. Junior Green Party Minister Joe O Brien not to be outdone, even added to that just two days ago.

    Seeing as you appear to have missed both, (rather than perhaps attempting to block them out 😎), and want to know more about either just give me a shout. Both cases so idiotic and out of touch you really could not make it up.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Many options are proposed during the formation of legislation, some make it in, some don't.

    Only this week we saw amendments to planning legislation get dropped on the day it was being voted on.

    This is a normal part in the process 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    The only thing that made it in was vague nonsense and banning on retail making it cheaper to buy turf. Some victory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,874 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    hardcore green policies will only end in failure. look at sri lanka for example:

    Queues for miles

    The capital Colombo has become a city of queues. Long and futile days are spent waiting in line for the basic necessities of life; gas, petrol, food.

    Without petrol the drivers can't work and earn money, so their families go hungry.

    As Sri Lanka battles its worst economic crisis in decades, Daranagama has barely touched his four-acre field this season. Without access to fertilizer, he and other farmers expect crop yields to slump, threatening food supplies across a nation already pushed to the brink.


    but its all good, emissions have lessened i have no doubt + less people to worry about feeding. think these policies are a winner. can see no downside.

    zealots who used sri lanka as an experiment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sri Lanka's situation is not that simple


    • Trade deficit
    • Low reserves of foreign currencies
    • Tieing the Sri Lanka rupee value to the dollar
    • A collapse of tourism due to terrorist attacks in 2019 particularly impacted the second item above
    • Mismanagement of central funds by the govt
    • Populist but costly social programmes were rolled out which they couldn't afford to keep going but kept going anyway
    • Covid
    • Supply chain issues
    • The Russian invasion led to the cost of food and energy imports sky rocketing
    • and so on


    They then untied the value of their currency which saw it drop through the floor and worsened everything.


    The issue you highlighted is absolutely a problem in how it was implemented, not disputing that but its one item on a long list of bad decisions and poor luck that have f'ed up its economy.


    Its the first in what is going to be a long list of countries that are going to default due to mismanagement. Next up, Pakistan, Lebanon, Eritrea etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    All true but the fall in production is the main issue. They would not have to pay stupid money for food if they were still growing staples 50%-60% drp in yield.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    By 1600 forest was less than 20% of cover in Ireland. Neolithic farmers created the bogs by cutting down the forests.

    If we dig up and burn the bogs and replant with forest or drain the bogs and plant forest we are technically restoring it to pre-neolithic times. Isn`t that crazy.

    From the web link:

    "That was to change 3,000 years later when Neolithic farmers arrived in Ireland. They would have a huge impact on Ireland’s forests as they began to clear land for agriculture. This happened at a time when the climate became much wetter.

    Where trees were burned or cut down to make way for fields or rough grazing, tree seedlings didn’t get a chance to grow as they were eaten by livestock. As the trees didn’t protect the soil anymore, the increased rainfall leached nutrients and clay particles from the soil.

    This resulted in a gradual build-up of dead vegetation over many, many years growing into thick peaty layers and formed extensive blanket bog areas across Ireland.

    That’s why we now regularly find dead tree stumps in bog.

    Over the next 3,500 years, so much of the forest cover was removed that by the end of the Bronze Age, the poorly wooded appearance of Ireland became clear. Especially in the upland areas, blanket bog has by now replaced woodland.

    Just as is happening right now in the Amazon, why did we clear so much forest? Because people wanted to create space for farming and because wood was essential to people’s everyday lives. Wood was used for fuel, in the making of tools, for constructing houses and roads.

    Over the next 2,000 years or so, and especially during the Early Christian Period, population growth and expansion of farming led to a dramatically altered landscape. By 1600, less than 20% of Ireland was covered by forests.

    The decline of the few remaining Irish forests continued over the following 300 years. With a rapidly expanding population, forests were no longer seen as an integral part of the rural landscape but more as an engine to drive agricultural growth.

    Once cleared and drained, they provided valuable, fertile grazing land for commercial cattle, sheep and dairy enterprises. This process was accelerated by the 17th century Plantations of Ireland where recently arrived settlers cleared large tracts of land for farming.

    This fast growth in the population caused towns and villages across Ireland to grow very fast. That required a lot of timber. For instance, large amounts of oak were exported to rebuild London following the Great Fire in 1666.

    Because of the large number of cattle in Ireland, the trade in cattle hides was also very important. Tannins can be extracted from oak bark to tan leather. As a result, many oak trees were killed by stripping them of their bark to tan hides.

    The Irish coopering industry manufactured vast amount of barrels to export Irish produce such as meat, butter, fish and tallow and exported huge numbers of barrels to France and Spain for their wine and spirit trade. Rivers were critical in transporting the timber down to the ports.

    Ship building as well as the production of charcoal to fuel ironwork enterprises required a lot of wood.

    The late 19th century saw many mobile sawmills travelling around Ireland cutting down the last few remaining forests. This meant that by the end of the 19th century, Ireland’s forest cover had been reduced from 80% 6,000 years ago to about 1%."



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Societies with high education levels already have birthrates below replacement.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    Seeing the disdain Greens have for anything nuclear

    our species will not go interstellar as there’s no wind in space 🤣



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