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Hot Spell - Saturday 16th July onwards

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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Mod Note: Can we stay on topic please. Not allowing this thread to be dragged down the climate change rabbit hole!



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Hairypoppins


    I think the record will go at casement due to the mentioned factors above all coming together ive gone for a 34 at casement on the flash competition



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭pad199207


    Pity there isn’t any station in County Kildare except a few fairly reliable WOW stations



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    You still have Athy and Lullymore Nature Centre as active climate stations there but of course their data doesn't come in for a good few months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭compsys


    Of course no one, single event can be attributed to climate change.

    The point is that this 'perfect alignment', had it happened around 50 years ago, probably wouldn't have led to temps nearly this high.

    I mean, you could find a valid 'excuse' or 'reason' for every single temperature record if you wanted to (just by simply describing the forecast as you have done).

    You say: "The sea surface temperature anomalies are quite extreme at the moment in the Med". Why do you think that is?

    I'm honestly a bit surprised you posted this. Do believe in climate change or think it's a hox?

    I'm sure someone in Spain is saying there's a perfectly valid reason for temps getting up to 48 degrees ("it's just because we've had an area of intense high pressure over us") and I'm sure someone in Sydney is saying there's a perfectly valid reason 1,800mm of rain has fallen so far this year and that there's been two massive once-in-a-century floods in four months...

    On the latter, yes I know it's due to La Nina. But a warmer atmosphere holds more moisture...

    Post edited by compsys on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    There are only particular circumstances that yield Föhn warming and this would not be one unless there's a lot of low cloud associated with it (sea fog, for example). Air passing over a mountain and down the other side does not change its net temperature unless it's lost liquid water out of it in the form of precipitation.

    There can be Föhn occurences due to isentropic draw-down, if there's a strong increase in wind with height, but this seems unlikely too. Any heat over Sunday/Monday will rely on clear skies and relatively light surface winds to minimise vertical mixing out. Normally we would need several days of cumulative heating to reach these highs, but the warmer upper air will battle to counteract vertical mixing. Still a lot to get right with this situation. We don't want to see streams of Ac or As coming up from the southeast, though to see so would indicate a chance of thunderstorms. A lot of moving parts to be oiled yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    According to the AEMet, the highest in Spain this week has been 45.7 °C at Almonte, Huelva (sited on dark ground). Today's high so far has been 44.9 °C at Badajoz.

    It's notable the large area of below-average temperatures at the 850-hPa level over much of northern/eastern Europe and northern Africa. The warm anomalies lie further west. It's not all positive anomalies everywhere, as some would like to imply. This heat is being caused by the persistence of the cut-off low to the west of Iberia, leading to day after day heating of the Iberian landmass, which will then advect northwards as the low moves on. It's not meandering jetstreams.




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Hmm. Meanwhile, Met Eireann say:

    Climate Change & Extreme Heat – July 2022

    Over recent decades we have observed an increase in the frequency, duration and intensity of extremely hot weather across most global land regions. Human-caused climate change resulting from greenhouse gas pollution is the main driver of this increase in extreme heat.

    While extremely hot weather does occur within natural climate variability, the kinds of temperature extremes we are seeing in Europe are directly influenced by climate change. June 2022 was Europe’s 2nd warmest on record, and the USA’s warmest. The 8 hottest Junes on record globally all occurred in the last 8 years.

    Keith Lambkin, Head of Met Éireann’s ‘Climate Services Division’ said “ Due to climate change, we are expecting to see heatwaves become longer, more frequent and intense than in the past. This increase in heat, increases the odds of temperature records being broken.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭pad199207


    GFS going for 29° now for Sunday and still sticking to 33° for Monday

    Meanwhile Arpege going for 30° on Sunday


    M



  • Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭B2021M


    Is it generally accepted that temperatures recorded in the late 1800s were accurate? Presumably there are far more sophisticated methods of doing it now? Not trying to cast doubt on any readings, just curious about it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Nothing funny about it at all. I have a Stevenson's Screen and if I remove the grass sod around it and replace it with tarmacadam or concrete the readings will be way higher - especially in warm sunny weather. There's a reason these instruments should be sited correctly - so readings are not artificially influenced. It is a directly demonstrable fact, whereas - greenhouse gasses and their effects are not, and such is the language used:

    We "expect" to see higher temperatures, we "may" this, that, the other. All very fluffy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭WJL




  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    Why would there be egg on faces? It's an extreme heat event with the potential to severely impact on people and animals and cause severe impact to services. It's far better to try to have a plan in place to respond to that than our crowd here would do with their standard 'shure it'll be grand' approach to everything while they sit back and do nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭WJL


    In lay man's terms there's more blue than red! Big negative anomaly off the coast of South Africa.

    Remember a few summers ago we had a large cold anomaly in the Atlantic and the summer was cool. Can't remember which one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Must record that forecast more often. Very thorough forecasting



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭WJL




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭compsys


    I didn't say the entire globe was above average right now. And I didn't say the hot spell is due to a meandering jetstream.

    The point is that this 'perfect alignment', had it happened around 50 years ago, probably wouldn't have led to temps nearly this high.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Perhaps 50 years ago the temperatures might only be 0.2c~0.6c cooler.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭compsys


    The global temp anomaly YTD is about 0.85 degrees. One of the highest on record.

    Just as well weather deals in data, facts, and science, and not hunches or layman's terms I guess.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Of course they're reliable, because the same long-term data are used to set the pre-industrial baseline against which current temperatures are compared. ;-) If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander...

    There was a good link to a ukweatherworld post outlining the context of the Kilkenny record in relation to other temperatures at other stations at the time and it seems a legitimate record. It's a good few pages back I think, or maybe on another thread.

    It looks like 45.1 °C is going to be the highest in Spain today. Here are the past few days' maxima there.

    Sunday 10th: 43.2 °C (Olivenza, Badajoz, 18:00)

    Monday 11th: Candeleda, Ávila, 18:10)

    Tuesday 12th: 43.9 °C (Mérida, Badajoz, 17:40)

    Wednesday 13th: 45.7 °C (Almonte, Huelva, 17:30)

    EDIT: Today (updated 19:42 local): 45.1 °C (Candeleda, Ávila, 16:20).

    Post edited by Gaoth Laidir on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭compsys


    A map of temps over 20 years for the entire globe does not equate to the temp being 0.2c~0.6c cooler in Ireland over 3 days or four days.

    Christ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Sorry, I wasn't implying you had said it but I've heard it already several times. It's peak solar isolation in the northern hemisphere, so the cut-off low coincides perfectly to line up these two holes in the cheese. It's then down to if you think that extra CO2 in the air this week has made the temperatures on the ground higher co.pared to 50 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭WJL


    I was just having a cursory look at the anomalies now. I never mentioned annually or made any claims. Funny how people read, or misread, posts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    What baseline do you want to use? What constitutes as absolute average for Ireland, or any point on the globe for that matter?

    "Christ..." ???

    It's a well known fact that hot spells such as the one coming up have visited Ireland in the past. 33.3c was recorded in Kilkenny before, Markree too.

    Going by the logic of some - if Ireland breaks 33.3c this Monday it's absolute proof of Global Warming.

    Say we don't exceed 33.3c or equal it, do we conclude that there is no proof of Global Warming?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Arpege for the Monday is in. Difficult for me to make out all the temperatures jumbled on top of each other in the south-west but I can see a 34C for Shannon. Meath not as hot maybe 29 to 30.

    Sunday looks very warm too, high twenties for most, 31C for Shannon.


    Arpege goes as far as Tuesday morning and the temperature remains above 20C for many places through Monday night into Tuesday morning. Parts of Wales and south-west England may struggle to get night time temperatures below 30C.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭compsys


    You're implying that a global temp anomaly over 20 years would mean the temp would only be up to 0.6º higher in Ireland on a few days (and anywhere else I presume).

    I'm not going to explain how means and averages etc. work when dealing with huge amounts of data.

    I agree that not every event should be attributed to GW. I mean, last year I did complain to myself when a Green Party TD talked about the consequences of GW because the temp was going to reach 25 for a few days!

    However some of the explanations on here for why the upcoming record-breaking temps aren't GW seem a bit ridiculous. We're clearly in a climate crisis and a warming planet. And it's disappointing to see so many climate change deniers on what's supposed to be a scientific topic.

    Also, we're seeing 30º breached every second year in Ireland now it seems when it used to be once a decade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭jackrussel


    Any chance ye could all take yer CC talk to the CC thread like the mod asked ye to do instead of continuing to turn this one into a shitshow? Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Lads stop having a go at each other, who cares, stick on topic please or you could be removed



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,649 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The exceptional heat looks to be short lived, probably 2 to 3 days. The breakdown early-mid next week will be interesting to watch. There is storm potential but so far nothing notable. A lot depends on how the low pressure approaches from the southwest or Biscay. Still to be ironed out but I'd expect entertainment for some.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Also, we're seeing 30º breached every second year in Ireland now it seems when it used to be once a decade.

    • On June 26th 1851 Markree recorded 32.9c
    • On June 27th 1851 Markree recorded 33.1c
    • On June 28th 1851 Markree recorded 33.3c
    • On June 29th 1851 Markree recorded 32.2c

    Four days in a row over 32c, let alone 30c - all from a station traditionally away from the much warmer south and east of Ireland.

    All data: https://www.met.ie/cms/assets/uploads/2021/09/Markree_1850-1968.csv

    These heat blasts have happened before, they'll happen again.



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