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NZ Tour 2022 - Māori June 29th, NZ July 2nd, NZ July 9th, Māori July 12th, NZ July 16th, KO 8.05am

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    You realise that Murray being inferior is your opinion and not a fact, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Nah, he's not better than the Ulster or Connacht SHs, nor Casey for that matter, and that's been the case for sometime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Opinion. Not fact. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you’re some oracle of truth and objectivity. You’re just an internet poster, the same as the rest of us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Sure, with a set of eyes like the rest of us. Who can see the evidence on the pitch, like the rest of us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    And form opinions like the rest of us. Claiming that you know best is a sure fire way to prove that you don’t.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    The issue with moving on Forster is finding the cash to pay him and his staff off and then bringing in and financing a brand new staff when we are just coming out of covid when cash is tight and the RWC only being a year away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Did NZRU do that mega deal recently for some crazy sum?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    A few thoughts on winners and losers from the Tour. Obviously the full list of winners is massive so this is an edited version.

    Winners;

    Sheehan - recovered from a ropey first test to be very good in the second and sensational in the third. Could well be the first choice come November.

    Treadwell - limited time in the tests but looked very good in everything he did and put a bit of daylight between himself and the other locks.

    Coombes & Timoney - impressed in both Maori games. Coombes could well claim the 20 jersey in November.

    POM - in and out of the team under Farrell but very much in now

    Hansen - nailed down the right wing IMO.

    Frawley - thrown in at the deep end, he did OK under the circumstances in the first Maori game and looked much better in the second.

    Michael Bent - nuff said.


    Losers;

    Baird - he's had a disrupted season but two second half appearances against the Maori is not how he would have seen this going

    Prendergast - harsh maybe but didn't make a case in the same way Coombes or Timoney did.

    Conan - Will struggle to keep the 20 jersey, let alone reclaim the 8

    H Byrne, Hume - the poor baxtards

    Aki - stay with me here. Henshaw and Ringrose were the first choice pairing, Aki was great from the bench in the second test and was very good in the third but... I doubt there's a Monday morning video review planned but a guy missing six tackles in one game would not be looking forward to it.

    Larmour - given his form for Leinster and his display in the second Maori game, he'd have hoped to be in the 23 jersey yesterday. Doesn't look like Farrell is a fan.

    Lowry - again, maybe harsh but just didn't make an impression

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Harsh on Aki I think.

    I'm a huge Ringrose fan, but I though the directness Aki brought was a huge factor in winning the 2nd test. I thought he was excellent as well in the 3rd test. He brings a physicality to our backline that we just don't have otherwise.

    Can't argue with the others.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Aki played very, very well, don't get me wrong - just different players wanted different things from this tour. Aki's objective was to break up the Henshaw-Ringrose partnership and I don't think (personally) that he's done so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'd put Carberry in the loser section. He did very little to close the gap on Sexton. In fact, Farrell left Sexton on for 70 minutes on Saturday.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I wouldn't have him in the loser section at all.

    After this tour he is firmly in the "sextons successor" box seat and his closest rival is a guy who doesn't even play 10 at his club.

    The gap between carbery and all other pretenders has never been wider imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I doubt that HB has been cast off! He has a poor injury profile and who knows, that could change. Carberry is set at the moment but, he's not getting much time behind mt Sexton!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I'm still ambivalent on Larmour. He has something no other player has, in his step and acceleration. But I just don't see him making either of the key passes (Hansen->Lowe, Lowe->Keenan) that beat a 3 on 2 for Keenan's try yesterday. His boot and aerial game might be a notch below what we need at international level. At 25, time is still on his side to some degree. But there's more than one area that needs improvement.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He's probably got about 3 years before his primary assets start to deteriorate and he's firmly down the pecking order as it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I disagree. I think Frawley's performance in the Mãori games, along with Carbery's poor displays in tests 1 and 2 will have raised questions in Farrell's mind. If Frawley starts getting minutes at 10 for Leinster next season and Carbery doesn't find form for Munster, I think he could be in trouble come November



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree with this take. I think Larmour doesn't have the passing game that the others have. He's also suspect under the high ball.

    But, he's unreal with ball in hand. Very few lads with his ability to leave defenders tackling shadows. I don't see him developing to the kind of player that Farrell wants. Also, his instinct is to attack from anywhere, that is not what Farrell is looking for. Larmour doesn't have the kicking ability of Lowe and I think Lowes kicking is huge in clearing our lines and demoralizing the opposition. I don't think any of our wings can match Lowe for his kicking.

    I do think that Larmour is ideally suited for the 23 jersey. So, I wouldn't write him off. Anything can happen. Depth wise we're stocked for wingers. Conway, Hansen, Balacoune and Larmour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You can't overlook how well that back 3 worked as a unit too. I'd say Farrell will be loathe to give that up. Keenan's try was a perfect embodiment of that.

    I know NZ produce work class wings every other week, but I wonder if they'd have any regrets at missing out on Lowe now.

    Post edited by AbusesToilets on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Not sure about that at this point. I’ve never been happier to see Murray come onto the field than to close out that final test. Is there another 9 you’d say has the experience and the ability to confidently see that out? Maybe, but Murray is the kind of player any coach would love to have on the bench in a moment like that.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I doubt it. They could use Aki more than Lowe IMO.

    Imagine if we had Will Jordan or Caleb Clarke to call on.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I hate to say it as someone who harboured high hopes for Harry Byrne, but there is no way they can make any plans around him now. His ability doesn't come into even here, you just can't factor around someone with his injury profile. Way too risky to give a spot in a RWC squad to someone who you can't rely on, even if he was pulling up trees on the pitch, which he isn't.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, agreed on this. When times were tense in the final moments of the last two tests, I was glad to see Murray arriving.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    theres a very big "IF" in that post.

    we've seen nothing from leinster to suggest that Frawleys minutes at 10 will be increased, other than injury enforced. They went to south africa back in april with a scratch side and still didnt play frawley at 10. So currently hes 4th choice out half in Leinster and no where even close to starting a European knock out game.

    compare that to carbery who currently has 35 irish caps and is munsters european starter.

    coming into this tour questions were asked about who sextons successor would be, and in my opinion this tours has increased carberys position as being that successor. to put it simply, frawley is coming from way at the back of the field to try to oust carbery. One great and one workmanlike performance against the maoris isnt going to suddenly see him jump the 22 shirt, especially seeing as hes going to get very little opportunity at 10 in blue before the RWC warm up games next july.

    in my opinion Frawley has leap frogged burns and carty and is on an equal footing with HB currently in the list of pretenders. but the gap between carbery and those pretenders has increased, and thus why i wouldn't consider him a "loser" from this tour, even if his contribution was a total of 80 minutes over the 5 games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    we've seen nothing from leinster to suggest that Frawleys minutes at 10 will be increased

    Signing Charlie Ngatai.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ngatai is a utility back.

    Leinster and ireland will be moth balling Henshaw

    Leinster just offered Prendergast and Tector (both out halfs) academy spots

    Leinster already have Sexton and the two Byrnes as the incumbent 10's

    Theres very limited minutes to go around. I believe if leinster were seriously looking at Fralwey as sextons successor they would have given him time at 10 on the SA tour. There is as much possibility at the moment that Frawley will never see the irish 10 ever again, as there is in him being in the 22 shirt at the RWC 23.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    There is as much possibility at the moment that Frawley will never see the irish 10 ever again, as there is in him being in the 22 shirt at the RWC 23.

    I'd say the former is far more likely than the latter tbh.

    Like, two things need to happen - Frawley needs game time for Leinster at 10 and Farrell has to lose faith in Carbery. I don't see either happening soon tbh.

    Frawley's best shot is to get back into Ireland camp in November (I believe he will) and impress Farrell to the point where he says, I don't care what Leinster are doing, this is the guy.

    I agree that Ngatai arriving is unrelated to who plays 10. We've lost ROL, COB, A Byrne and Hawkshaw for next season so regardless, we need cover in the three quarters.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Agreed, and the last point is not improbable either.

    however im thinking the change of coaching structure at munster with mike prendergast coming in as attacks coach is going to be the fillip carbery needs to re-spark his career. Munster looked patternless under larkham and often their attack fell apart after 4 or 5 phases. Prendergast has had racing humming over teh last few seasons, even allowing for russells unpredictability.

    Frawleys best bet for leinster this year is to occupy the 22 shirt and cover both 10 and 12 from the bench, and this could be a real possibility for bigger games as a Frawley / Ngatai 22 / 23 reserve covers 10 to 15 quite adequately.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Brooklynn Shaggy Griddlecake


    Aki - stay with me here. Henshaw and Ringrose were the first choice pairing, Aki was great from the bench in the second test and was very good in the third but... I doubt there's a Monday morning video review planned but a guy missing six tackles in one game would not be looking forward to it.


    I can't remember any of the Aki misses but we had plenty of 'good' misses during the game where someone would shoot up, not really complete the tackle, but totally stymie NZ in midfield in the process. Bealham had one, and Henshaw is a bit of a master at it so he was completing his with one notable tackle on Barrett. I think it was clear enough Aki was behind Henshaw and Ringrose anyway but he's plenty of credit from this series imo.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Leinster already have Sexton and the two Byrnes as the incumbent 10's

    You can forget about Harry Byrne. He's never going to be a reliable option for anyone. That sounds harsh but Leinster can't afford to continually invest in him.

    If Leinster want to keep challenging for European Cups post-Sexton, Ross Byrne isn't the answer. And I'd be amazed if Leo and Lancaster aren't aware of this. Frawley is a vastly superior rugby player and has the potential to be a much better 10, and I think that was part of the thought process behind bringing Ngatai in, to almost replace Frawley in the 12 depth chart. And btw, they did start him at 10 in South Africa.



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