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All Blacks v Ireland part III - July 16 8.05am Ireland time

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    No it didn't. Who were the players that went to Japan, who cost the team because they hadn't been given enough exposure beforehand? Name them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,394 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Those are fair points. Carbery starting against France was hugely positive and we should aim to do it again this year.


    Don’t get it twisted from me: Farrell is doing brilliantly thus far. We’re on a phenomenal trajectory. I’m just hoping we do ourselves justice this time, that’s all.


    More days like Saturday is what we all want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,696 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    You and me both.

    But I'd say the biggest bug bear is with the players and management.

    Can you imagine training to within an inch of your ability, analysing absolutely every bit of footage you can and working with those of the highest qualification in their field and then having to justify to a room full of print media journos who haven't a notion about high performance sport.

    It's a bit insulting just how much reach some members of the Irish media have to the public with little to no understanding of the ins and outs of a professional set up.

    Credit does go to Kinsella, Jackman and ROG who are clearly pretty clued into what it actually takes and can therefore offer a pretty balanced view. But there's way too many ex pros too who are far too removed from the game to offer any useful insight (looking at you Quinlan...) the disparity between him and Isa on comms at the weekend was stark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I literally posted a quote from our own head coach above and you're still persisting with this. We get it. You're wrong, but we get it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Quinlan absolutely drives me spare. He almost makes the sport unwatchable at times.

    Him, Marty Morrissey and David Croft have a special place in commentary hell.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I just think the obsession with rotating the squad every single week at the expense of performance, in order to "give players exposure" is bizarre. Should we always be looking to identify new talent and ensure we have adequate depth? Of course, and Andy Farrell has done that But the importance of rotation is way overstated. I swear some people want a new XV every week.

    Playing well, winning games and improving as a team is also important. And to do that you need to have a level of cohesion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,394 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I’m being quite reasonable and measured in what I’m saying, I’m not getting afforded the same courtesy but that’s okay.


    I completely believe Farrell in what he intends. I’m not the only one out there worrying about this. BOD has said it numerous times. I’d love to be completely **** wrong come next Autumn, absolutely love it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    We had a squad going into 2019 with plenty of experience, the problem was the game plan had no evolved enough, the team and management didn't realise this till the England game and Rob Kearney confirmed this in an interview



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,394 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Yeah I agree in general, and I think again a lot of this conversation is discussed in extremes.


    I’m not suggesting a brand new XV every game, but maybe that’s how it comes across sometimes. Both sides are painting the other as ‘no development’ or ‘no winning’. It’s all about balance, and Farrell has walked that difficult tightrope phenomenally well thus far.


    We’re in a great position for 2023, and after Saturday we should feel so excited for what’s to come.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    Hugely positive apart from being a big contributor to us not winning the GS anyway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The 6nations will be intense this season. We have a great chance! All sides will fancy they're chances.

    I'm looking forward to the Kiwis playing the boks in a couple of weeks. I'm wondering how they'll react to a poor last few matches. The boks will put it to them. That pack is destructive and top notch. Imagine losing a series to Ireland and facing S.A for the next 2 matches. Foster is certainly up against it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,808 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    The SA v NZ matches will tell us a lot about where we stand. If SA wipe the floor with them then while not taking away from our achievements it will inform us about where NZ currently are.

    Looking at NZ they still have some really good players, maybe not at the 2007-2017 level, but the Barretts, Savea, Jordan, Whitelock and an inform Retallick are all amongst the best players in the world. Would a Joe Schmidt coached NZ make some of the basic errors we saw on Saturday? I think not, but who knows.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, agreed, can't wait for that NZ series in South Africa. They have to dig into their depth a bit, especially in the tight 5.

    Interesting how there are a lot of calls for Cullen Grace to step up, possibly into the 6 shirt. I thought he was good in Super Rugby, and pretty good for the Maori against us, but didn't think he was a world beater by any means either.

    Depth in the tight 5 and a solution at blindside flanker seem to be live issues for them, along with sorting out their midfield.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Cited nevertheless, which strikes me as entirely reasonable given retallick suffered cerebral commotion and a fractured cheekbone. And you know as well as I that you would have expected the NZ prop to get a red card if beirne or Ryan had gone off with concussion and a fracture.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It bears mentioning but the effort that Sexton put in to chase Jordan back has to be commended.

    He was never catching him in a million years but he knew that if he just eased off , Jordan would go around under the sticks.

    He kept running flat out to make sure that Jordan had to stay wide and as a result Barrett missed the conversion.

    Those 2 points make the last 15 minutes a different game altogether.

    An 8 point game and NZ take one of those penalties and then it's a 1 score game and the pressure on Ireland is hugely increased.

    Ultimately we held them scoreless from then anyway , but the mindset from both teams becomes quite different when it's one score vs. two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    We let the pressure get to us in 2019. Players and coaches alike. We took our eye off the ball going into the 6Ns with too much of a focus on the RWC QF. And then when the wheels started to come off we panicked. Players started forcing things and making errors. Coaches started getting involved when they never had done before and just added to the pressure cooker environment.

    One of the most important things Farrell seems to be doing is building confidence while also reducing pressure. And, while it may sound contradictory, then allowing us to deal with the pressure when it does come on all the better because it isn’t pressure on pressure. Spreading the load across the squad, creating a good environment, building a game plan that the lads actually enjoy. So much of that seems to be in direct response to what went wrong in 2019.

    People keep talking about how our game got “figured out”. We never played a complicated game under Joe. Teams not figuring us out was not why we were so good in 2018. We were that good because we executed that game to a degree that other teams couldn’t cope with. Figuring us out was never a problem for opposition sides. Dealing with us was. And once our focus slipped in the 2019 6Ns and our performances dipped that just wasn’t the case any more. And then once the panic set in we just compounded it all.

    If Farrell can get us to a RWC with the confidence and ability to deal with the pressure then that’s a large part of the job done. The other part is a game plan that is a winning one. And we have seen that we can put that together. This series has shown we can deal with the pressure. For me we look to be heading in the right direction. And that’s one that doesn’t focus on one tournament or series at the expense of others. And that’s exactly the right way to do things. After all, losing can become a habit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Teams worked out to stop Ireland on the first 3-4 phases and then we would run out of idea's. I am a huge fan of Joe's and he had an excellent plan and to be fair he was going into the last weekend of the 6 nations with a chance of winning it. We also had a few players who's performance dropped off a cliff and didn't really recover for the WC.

    The comments from rob saying they didn't think they had any issues till after the England warm up game told a lot and why I question the IRFU didn't come in and give Joe a hint to swap the style, it's not like he hadn't done it before.

    Farrell now has been involved in two WC's, 2015 and 2019, both as a coach and not the head coach. He should have the experience of what "can go wrong" after those two competitions. But he also was involved with the Lions twice(2013 & 2017) from memory. So knows what went well with those tours

    His record against NZ is also amazing when you think he was part of the England ticket which won all those years ago.

    If anyone has the experience to get this right it should be him, problem is he has the worst draw that Ireland ever had, well I think so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Not sure about this. England gave us a lesson in forward play. We weren't in that one. That was the 1st match of the 6nations. This loss opened the cracks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oops



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I’m not sure if there was any concussion symptoms or was it solely the fact he fractured his cheekbone that he stayed off.

    I read an analysis criticising the mitigation used, that medium force shouldn’t be allowed as mitigation, only low force. Or maybe Barnes viewed as low force due to not moving forward or sticking his head out, it was more like a wrap tackle.

    So it will be illuminating to hear what the officials say about this.

    Absorbing the impact while standing upright is probably a yellow, whereas moving forward and protruding the head or a shoulder to make an impact worse should be a red in my view.

    I still think there should be consideration given to the carrier targetting a collision, maybe the laws need an addendum, if the carrier does not look to run past the player but chooses instead to run directly head-on into the tackler then that has to be taken into account.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I also remember a champions cup/heineken cup match with Sexton chasing back with no hope of catching the try scorer. it did end up meaning he was close enough to see that the ball wasn't grounded properly and demand a TMO which showed no try. All I remember from that is that it was Beale who did 90% of the work only for someone else to muck it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    A big issue we had in 2019 was persisting with players who were not in form at all, and hoping to play them back into it. Sexton and Murray the obvious examples.

    I hope that Farrell will take form into consideration going thru next season to the WC. If starters from this team aren't playing well, then I hope he will pick guys who are. Genuine competition



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Provincially and nationally, we seem to be more vulnerable to tight five power than the passing game given that our defence is so well organized. Many of our backs are not pacy by international standards but only Jordan got a chance to really expose that. As noted above, the upcoming SA-NZ games will be watched with great interest to see where they and we stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm hoping for bok blitz! They're the Champs and I think they'll be chomping at the bit!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Absolutely. The significance of that chase only became truly apparent when the con was missed. And it was missed barely.

    As they always say, it's the little things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Good video of John Kirwan, Justin Marshall, Jeff Wilson and familiar Leinster face performing an autopsy with lots of soul searching. Interesting to hear the acknowledgement of the level of Ireland's superiority right now.

    ABs tour to South Africa will be a fascinating watch. If they don't grind out something there they may have to do a root-and-branch job on the team and send a lot of lads to Japan to graze on yen. Even Argentina look in decent shape and will be looking to heap on the misery. This series loss could well have totally screwed up their World Cup cycle.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Haven’t seen it mentioned but a test series win without arguably you’re start wrong hooker and lineout caller, two players in Kelleher and Henderson who would be in the conversation for world class if not just the tier below is huge.

    IF (big if) you can keep that first choice pack and subs fit, can’t see why you’d be afraid of any team come rwc time.


    would like to see Bernie start at 6 and Ryan and henderson In second row against the boks in November



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I'd say if SA don't win both these matches against NZ it's a very bad sign for them. They've been uninspiring of late and I'd fancy all three RC teams to beat them if they were away from home



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    NZ's on and off-field issues are interconnected. The domestic product is weaker - both competitively and financially - without the SA teams. Unless the reformatted SR competition makes a big impact with Asian TV viewers, I can't see any other viable financial support to keep ABs at home.

    On the other hand, as the national side continues to stutter, top players departing for a payday would have proportionally more impact on the All Blacks. And that brand, and all its earning potential, is critically reliant on the dominance of the team on the field.

    It's not outrageous to suggest NZ may need to soon consider an Australia/SA style system of integrating a high-earning elite diaspora with a core of domestic players. But of course that weakens the domestic product even further and we're back to square one.

    If I'm the NZRU I get Robertson in immediately, as distasteful as that may seem, a year out from an RWC. The longer the ABs underperform on the field, the more lasting the damage during this pivotal transition across the broader NZ ecosystem.



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