Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

19-07-2022 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357229#Comment_119357229

Sure they are on about a 30% cut

If there are less dairy calves maybe the beef prices stays over €4.50.

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2022 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357789#Comment_119357789

There will not be less dairy calves. The dairy herd is unlikely to reduce in size. The same number of calves will be born with sexed semen. Just more of them will not be Friesians. However it could be a doubled edged sword. It could increase JE breeding in the dairy herd. The temptation to use easier calving bulls could increase with smaller cows. You could end up with a lower quality calf overall.

What would be worse is that Friesian at present have an export market for veal. There is no indication that we could export large number of AA and HE calves. As well the AA bonus could come under pressure and the HE one definitely would.

As less calves would be exported the amount of cattle going through the system could increase exponentially

19-07-2022 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357976#Comment_119357976

They want to reduce emissions in agri by 30 %

A good way of doing that is getting stock away at 24 months

Fellas milking cows aren’t stupid. They won’t increase their herds exponentially to eat there own market and only end up paying more tax

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2022 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358323#Comment_119358323

I did not say the herd would increase ( even though it is) I said that there is a developed market for Friesian call es for veal. There is no such market for AA and HE calves. If Sexed semen reduces the number of fair bulls it will mean more AA and HE calves mainly. There is. Ot a huge export demand for them.

The value of the calf at present is ignored in a lot of the Irish dairy system. Sexed semen may actually see a decline in AA nd HE calf quality if dairy farmers see JE breeding again as a viable option.

Sexed semen may actually see more Calves remain in the country even if export markets remain as there is not the same demand for HE and AA calves by exporters

19-07-2022 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358379#Comment_119358379

Well I’d say we can agree on one thing a fellow doing calf to beef needs a bit quality in the calf to make a margin.

There is a good demand actually for aa heifers for export

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2022 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358416#Comment_119358416

He needs a management system that extracts the most benefit from a particular animal. Friesian have certain advantages it's maximising that advantage that turns a profit.

amacca · 19-07-2022 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358323#Comment_119358323

Explain how getting animals away at 24 months is a good way of reducing emissions....

I'd nearly think it would increase emissions

24 months = more intensive production, more heads for less money and more inputs?

Would extensive production..... fattened off grass at older ages and less inputs not reduce emissions?

19-07-2022 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358777#Comment_119358777

6 months less methane

Thats 24 months on average. Sure heifers could get away at 21 months easy

Siamsa Sessions · 19-07-2022 1:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358777#Comment_119358777

I could be wrong but I think the theory is that the less time the animal is on the planet, the less emissions it will produce.

Unless I'm missing something (and I usually do!), this is only half the equation coz as you point out, finishing earlier means more meal feeding which has its own emissions footprint, ever before you get to the soya imports from across the Atlantic. This might still mean lower emissions but without the figures to back it up, it's easy for Éamon Ryan and friends to dismiss it as a serious option.

Re extensive production: that might lower emissions, but it would also lower production overall. While farmers might be happy with this if it increased price (lower supply = higher price?), the Govt and others who benefit from exports do not want to lower production, despite all the talk of reducing the national herd to meet climate targets. Lower production = lower tax take. So I couldn't see extensive production being encouraged, beyond the token organic schemes that allow the Govt the best of both worlds. They are seen to be doing something without really impacting their bottom line.

amacca · 19-07-2022 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358790#Comment_119358790

Very simplistic imo

If I can get them away earlier I just carry more items on the production line and cycle them quicker....it just increases animal turnover

Then add the inputs.....not to mention I find a lot of the dairy calves down this neck of the woods unsuitable for beef without a hell of a lot of those inputs.

I mean you were saying in previous post dairy men not stupid enough to increase herd exponentially to eat their market.......it looks like the beef lads are being pushed into increasing turnover via age limits

I'd be very very dubious of the direction this age limits thing is going.....its not in the primary producers interests at all afaics

19-07-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358954#Comment_119358954

Sure the fellas doing cattle at 28 to 30 months have cattle finishing at a time when the grass quality is seriously dipping.

Added to that the meal bin.

Fresh grass is the answer. If fellas had fresh grass ahead of the stock they’d get away sooner.

amacca · 19-07-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359017#Comment_119359017

If everyone at that isn't it just glut making when the fresh grass is tailing off.....

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2022 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359017#Comment_119359017

Not necessarily the truth. In the Beef price thread you said costs had gone up by a euro/ kg after I said 50c/kg.

I revisited my system and its slightly less than 50 c/ kg. Ration increased by about 110/ ton it's costing me an extra 19-22/ head. Fertlizer is costing me an extra 65/ head. Plastic 4.5/ head. Contractors is about 27-30/ head. Allow miscellaneous other costs to have risen by 25-30/ head which is unlikely that gives a my overall increase to be about 140-145/ head or about 44c/ kg if I only average 330 kgs DW per animal.

Fresh grass costs money as well

19-07-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359286#Comment_119359286

What about your margin? Inflation running at 10%. That’s the other 50 cent

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2022 3:42pm

10% on to my margin would be 25-30 euro/ head or less than Han 10c/kg. I expect my margin to increase by that as well

Winter finishing and higher cost systems are gone up by a euro/kg so I expect to receive increase it as higher cost system will be competing with me at the ringside.

Any it was costs not margin we were talking about.

smallbeef · 19-07-2022 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359017#Comment_119359017

What are you talking about. Most beef cattle turn 30 months in Aug/Sept. Your 21-24 month olds are hanging Nov-March. Far more thrive in grass April-July than Sept-Nov. You'll be killing nice handy cattle. I could have killed HE bullocks off grass in early Dec, they would have been ~270kg DW - they would have struggled for FS so would have needed at least 100kg ration. 4.20 base at the time, so lets say I could have got €1,215 inc bonuses. I housed them for 3.5 months on silage only. Out on grass since paddys day and got 100kg of nuts over last 5 weeks. Averaged 385kg DW last week at 4.90 base - €2,050. Extra cost about €220.

Its not about 'getting them away'. Lower age limits will be another death nail to beef farmers. Those animals need to be replaced so higher turnover - marts fees, haulage, ration, factory fees all increase. Methane emissions will be the same per KG of beef - its not like they stop growing at 24 months, compensatory growth on a 2YO is serious and its a waste not to use it. Its about putting on the cheapest KG's you can. You are spouting nonsense.

19-07-2022 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359801#Comment_119359801

What age were your bullocks?

smallbeef · 19-07-2022 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359852#Comment_119359852

29 months

cute geoge · 19-07-2022 4:15pm

killing cattle under 300 kg d/w is a dead duck .Just let them there no matter what age they are

19-07-2022 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359856#Comment_119359856

Got a 25 month old Angus away in May and he made over 2 k with no meal

smallbeef · 19-07-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359867#Comment_119359867

Will you give over your 'got away'. Like it's some kind of race. You had a better animal starting out. Second cut done here with 2 weeks, all animals moved to fresh grass every 2-3 days all summer. Grass based system too. I don't look for the animal that can be 'got away' early as they are expensive to buy and I've plenty cheap summer grass

19-07-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359952#Comment_119359952

Ok. How much does the cheap grass cost a day?

It is a race. My base was 30 cent higher than yours.

smallbeef · 19-07-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359971#Comment_119359971

Fair enough that is an incentive for an early summer finish, tbh I should have left some go sooner but thought prices would hold this year like they did last. But no matter how good you are you are leaving money behind killing most dairy beef before 27-30 months as most are born in feb/march. That was obviously a super animal but my cattle more closely represent the average dairy beef. I buy yearlings in April and vast majority of 14 month old dairy beef is under 350kg. How/why would you kill these under 24 months in nov-feb. The methane argument is moot and should not be used to justify younger limits

Base price · 21-07-2022 2:22pm

I see the first legal challenge on suck calf exports is been taken in the High Court. If the DAFM information that they got through freedom of information is correct it is surely the end of calf exports.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/unweaned-calf-exports-the-focus-of-high-court-challenge-against-minister-and-state/

farmertipp · 21-07-2022 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119368339#Comment_119368339

you would wonder what some of these do for a living.

Base price · 21-07-2022 3:03pm

Meanwhile, five EU countries (Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands) want changes made to existing animal transport legislation from within and export from the EU. This is on foot of the recent EU Parliament vote on the protection of animals during transit and their recommendation of a 28 day old calf age limit amongst others.

The noose has been slowly tightening on us over the last few years. We (some of us) has seen it coming down the tracks yet DAFM doesn't appear to be doing anything to put alternatives in place.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/five-eu-countries-seek-tighter-animal-transport-legislation/

21-07-2022 7:32pm

This is a disgrace and a total exploitation of our dairy farmers. They will go broke feeding milk replacer and ration to those old scrub calves.

Base price · 21-07-2022 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369577#Comment_119369577

It's not that but where are the 160+ thousand calves going to go too when the rules change. Will the calf exporters be willing to ship the same number of 28 day old calves, will it be viable. In fairness the majority of calves that are shipped are good quality FR bull calves. The calves with Jersey and Kiwi influence tend to stay in Ireland as they are not good enough quality for export. Our domestic market is going to be completely flooded with dairy beef putting even more pressure on prices whilst ensuring the factories have a steady supply of cheap beef.

21-07-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369754#Comment_119369754

Sure those types of cattle won’t finish till the end of July anyway meaning if you can get your stock away sooner you won’t be impacted

Bass Reeves · 21-07-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369754#Comment_119369754

It will not be 28 days. The agriland piece says the five countries are looing at two months for calves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369780#Comment_119369780

I am not sure what way you think. Its immaterial its over 3K/week of extra stock. Some will be finished as bull U16 months ( late April to June finish) soame at 18-24 months (October to February) this will impact the under 24 montsh early finishing steer trade, and yes some will be finish June to September U30 months. The 160K will not all be finished in any particular few months. When numbers are too high there is no getting away early.

Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

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