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All Blacks v Ireland part III - July 16 8.05am Ireland time

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Comments

  • #962
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363231#Comment_119363231

    Retallick is what, 7 inches taller

    Porter was passive, Retallick ducked down



  • #963
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363439#Comment_119363439

    Surely the height discrepancy makes it look even worse for Porter, not better? Porter was fully upright and still should have bent his knees to make the hit lower.



  • #964
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The simple fact is, there's no such thing as minor brain trauma, and it's cumulative. The game is inherently unsafe, and at a certain point that will have to be acknowledged. Likelihood some kind of recognition and baseline compensation established, along with a liability wavier.



  • #965
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363494#Comment_119363494

    They’re doing the right think now with age group rugby. Tackling below the waist only until 15 and below chest after that. If that had been brought in ten years ago we wouldn’t be having these problems now. It’s asking a lot for senior players now to change how they play in the heat of the moment. Best we can do it try to minimise bad tackling through red cards. In a few years tackling techniques will have improved. How that changes the overall physicality or the end product remains to be seen I guess

    IRB has been horribly behind the curve as the power and strength of players has increased



  • #966
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363535#Comment_119363535

    I fundamentally don't believe that the players are making mistakes and tackling too high. It's a deliberate and calculated gamble they take. The players are too good to assume that they are making errors with this degree of frequency. Other rule changes are adapted to much more swiftly.

    I'm not saying in each and every case, and obviously they don't mean to get themselves hurt as well, but the reality is that the tackle height is the way it is because players tackle high to prevent the offload.



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  • #967
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362772#Comment_119362772

    It absolutely is a cop out. Accidents can happen through bad technique. That can be corrected. I mean this isn’t complicated.



  • #968
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362890#Comment_119362890

    I’d agree with that. Anything they can do to incentivise tackling lower the better.



  • #969
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363488#Comment_119363488

    He should have, but as the directives have called out the officials need to look at a number of factors. That Porter was stationary and Ta’avao was running into the tackle is a pretty big difference.

    There are a lot of scenarios that the laws and directives need to cover, e.g. a tackler never moved toward the ball carrier and was unable to get low or get out of the way before the hit. We don’t want things getting too complicated (like the whole NZ should have been down to 12 men thing) because that’s just messy and ridiculous.

    So it’s a tough one to have laws and directives that will be spot on 100% of the time. And we just have to accept that. If perfection is the bar then we’ll be forever disappointed.



  • #970
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Would anyone accept banning offloads before the player is taken to the ground? It would take out one of the best aspects of the game but also remove incentives to tackle high.



  • #971
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364462#Comment_119364462

    That's very interesting. It would remove one of the incentives to tackle high.

    But a dominant hit chest high is key to knocking the ball carrier back behind gainline, improving opportunity for a turnover or at least slow the ball down. As well as having an energising effect on the defending team. So there would remain ample motivation to hit high I reckon.



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  • #972
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    If you hit the centre of gravity you have a better chance of lifting the player backwards rather than knocking them while still maintaining a solid wrapping motion. Very hard to offload when you're not planted on the ground too.



  • #973
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364462#Comment_119364462

    god no, you dont ban the action of the player thats fouled in order to remove the foul. Thats complete "victim blaming" to rob a common phrase. And anyway, offloading in or through contact is one of the great selling points of the game. its what made players like SBW so marketable.

    it also doesnt remove the more frequent problem of head trauma incidents caused by players tackling low. How often do you see two players tackle a carrier waist high and end up clashing heads, or a player getting their head on the wrong side and getting sparked out, or a player getting a knee or hip to teh head and also coming out the worst of it.

    High tackles which end up in a high degree of force and danger to the ball carrier are invariably the fault of the tackler. Tackle lower


    we need to get back to the idea that off loading is a key aspect to the game that should be encouraged, and actions to stop it should be discouraged (upright wrap tackles)

    look at this classic french try from 1995

    https://youtu.be/ox3gh1ZLlbQ?t=156


    No sign of a high upright tackle in this passage of play, and the result is a great try with 2 off loads in contact and 1 before the tackle. Thats what we need to bring back, and we do it by removing the upright tackle... which we are about 50% on the way to doing in my opinion. it just needs stronger direction from world rugby ('below shoulder' tackling only should be enforced) and ball carriers should be encouraged not to elicit contact but to run for space instead.



  • #974
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,146 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119364462#Comment_119364462

    God no. We should be about 'attacking spaces not faces' when playing rugby and stopping offloading before player goes to ground means far more tackle/rucks. a slower game. more collisions and more potential injuries. a slower game when all changes to the laws should be about creating a more open game while ensuring a fair contest is kept.

    Stopping offloads before the player is taken to ground wouldnt remove any incentive to tackle high. You tackle higher to prevent the ball coming back as fast. even if the ball carrier doesnt attempt to offload before going to ground.

    and what syd says...



  • #975
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    It’s important to note that the long term effects suffered by ex-players from multiple impacts is a result of non stop contact in training and not so much match day incidents!

    It’s not unusual for a player to have more impacts on the head on 30 mins in a Tuesday morning in a contact session than they would in a game! And they’ll have those sessions a few times a week. Add in the longer seasons (11 months for some players these days) and you have an awful lot of non match day collisions that will add up. Infact I’d imagine the number of match day head injuries are negligible in the grand scheme of things compared to training related incidents!

    Also remember you don’t need head contact to cause a head injury, the whip of the neck snapping the head forward in contact causes brain trauma also! (Think Lawes on Plisson, perfectly legal even today but prob worse than Porters or Ta’avo tackles head wise)



  • #976
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367279#Comment_119367279

    That used to be the case, but not sure it is any more. I read a ‘week in the life’ of Leicester recently, under Steve Borthwick, and there is very little, sometimes no, full contact now outside of match days. Back in their glory days, they made a big deal of the intensity of their training

    the guys coming out with life changing health issues now would have trained in a much more physically intense way



  • #977
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362053#Comment_119362053

    There is no time to adjust to drop your head ….in some cases It all happens in a split second… hence accidental



  • #978
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363022#Comment_119363022

    Barnes was wrong.. it was exactly the same collision as the second test… exactly… should have been a red and it would have possibly changed the result



  • #979
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭rodge123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367483#Comment_119367483

    Independent citing panel say otherwise, get over it.

    https://www.the42.ie/andrew-porter-brodie-retallick-citing-dismissed-5821030-Jul2022/?amp=1




  • #980
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367483#Comment_119367483

    Best tell the citing commission that considering they ruled the yellow was correct and no further action was required.



  • #981
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367477#Comment_119367477

    Then you don’t attempt the tackle if you’re not in a position to do so.



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  • #982
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    Just aside why is world rugby run out of England full of old POMS who are stuck in the past on huge salaries doing nothing about red cards and everything else that’s ruining our game. I think you guys would do a better job with a few pints of Guinness as payment.



  • #983
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    World Rugby is run out of Ireland.



  • #984
    TheRona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭TheRona


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367569#Comment_119367569

    Very hard for a player to go against a natural reaction.

    If you look at the two most obvious examples:

    Ta'Avao - doesn't attempt the tackle, avoids hurting himself, doesn't hurt Ringrose. Nothing comes of the play anyway as there's plenty of cover and Ringrose running laterally.

    Porter - doesn't attempt the tackle. clean line break, Ireland in trouble?



  • #985
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,787 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367595#Comment_119367595

    ... is world rugby run out of England

    ??


    if youre gonna rant, at least get your starting point correct



  • #986
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367664#Comment_119367664

    Well tell them to sort out this bloody red card problem then.



  • #987
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    BTW congratulations on getting World rugby in Dublin…(even if it did happen years ago) and yes I’ll check the facts before a rant in future….to be sure to be sure.

    Post edited by FairPOV on


  • #988
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367639#Comment_119367639

    Those reactions were coached into players. They can be coached out of them.

    Retalick wouldn’t have got much further. Even if Porter stood aside and gave a soft shoulder. It would have slowed Retalick enough for Furlong to tackle him. If it was a case of Ireland being in trouble. I think that’s a better outcome than a fractured cheekbone.

    In Ta’Avao’s case he stepped up and into the tackle, that’s a reaction in itself. A split second decision which needs to me made the other way.

    Players will get it wrong, that’s for sure but removing the consequences of getting it wrong. Or softening them, will only encourage players to get it wrong more often.



  • #989
    FairPOV
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭FairPOV


    What are you going to do when you win the RWC next year…. Full it with Guinness?



  • #990
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    N.Z fans and media are up in arms over the series. You'd swear they have a right to be the best. It's sport! Like every sport, there's purple patches and lows. Look at Barca or Man U! Like every other generation, there's bound to be teams improving and evolving, it's natural.

    We piss n moan ourselves and so do most nations. I would not say that Ireland are brilliant. I'd say that N.Z are average and we're going to learn more next month. Sports are competitive and there's nothing guaranteed. Referees are poor (imo) and results could vary on the appointment of a referee.

    The idea that the Porter incident decided the series is just rugby. If the decision had gone the other way, maybe the result changes. Maybe not! Over 3 test matches, Ireland were clearly the better team!



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  • #991
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As long as there is an incentive to tackle high (prevent offload, strip the ball, hold the ball carrier up) , there are going to be red cards. I'd imagine that the number of upright tackles that end in a red card is a tiny fraction of tackles that end in another way.



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