Russia - threadbanned users in OP

It's a simple case of of they target Russia with another countries weapons Kiev will lose international support ,and the fact Russia still has it's gas and oil flowing through and around Europe they still have plenty of power over eu states

The language Lavrov is using "no proposals from Ukraine that any serious person could take seriously" is obnoxious beyond belief. Though alas all too believable from him.

This sounds like victim blaming and something written by RT.

The Minsk agreement while supposedly ended the war in the Donbas, Ukraine Knew the Russians could not be trusted. Their little green men that popped up in Crimea. So yeah they fcuking armed themselves because sooner or later the Russians would be looking for more. And then more again. Russia is a bully and would never stop. They want USSR 2.0

A load of nonsense + a rewrite of history.

Russia just lies and distorts everything all the time, they think it is being clever. That statement by Lavrov [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62231936] is just the latest and its so tiring and dispiriting if you waste your time & try and follow it all. It doesn't matter what Putin/Lavrov said in the past or say now, watching what Russia does is more useful.

The aim of the war, once begun, was transparently to grab the whole country from day 1.

They went straight after Kyiv, to either decapitate or evict the current govt. and put a Putin Puppet in there, which Russia would then have declared was the legitimate Ukrainian govt. (vs the "Nazis" who had been removed). They would have tried that even if Zelensky fled + escaped the trap, or there was an attempt by others to organise and direct resistance from elsewhere in Ukraine.

I bet they would then have had their 2 "People's Republics" in Ukraine applaud the new Putin Puppets, and scouted about at the UN for anyone else they could cajole or bribe or bully to recognise Ukraine's new handpicked Putin-friendly leadership.

edit: That clever plan failed, and now Russia's military have an awful messy & bloody struggle on their hands to try and deliver Putin what he wanted (he seems to be, imo, a man who has not been balked or had someone tell him "no" for a very long time).

Absolute drivel. Regurgitation of Russian propaganda which accepts Russian interests entirely and denies Ukranians right to exist as a sovereign country.

Ukraine implemented as much of Minsk as they could do. They took all actions within their own power to comply. But Russia did not withdraw its forces or support for the separatists so Ukraine could not fully implement Minsk when its authority did not cover its territory.

Russia was already in clear violation of Budapest. Zero evidence it viewed Minsk any differently.

Russia has zero right to dictate what blocs Ukraine can join and as we have seen without NATO protection or assistance Russia would just waltz into Ukraine and install a puppet regime. Every action it has taken has shown it wants Ukraines resources in its orbit and if it cant get it through corruption economic warfare and threats of warfare it will try to take it by force.

I cant believe you are still spouting this propaganda when Putin and Lavrov have already pulled the rug out from all the useful idiots who went to bat with lies about nato or denazification when he talked about taking back what was theirs

They actually after signing Minsk 2 trying to add clauses that Ukraine couldnt join NATO. Of course that wasnt in the agreed text but Russian propaganda still lies it is a violation of it if Ukraine join.

Lavrov claimed in public Russia didnt violate Budapest by invading Crimea as Budapest only had 1 clause about nukes. Budapest has 6 clauses!

There is no lie they wont tell.

This is how the gangster fascists view agreements. They will only be stopped by force.

All of this talk of supposed justification for Russia's invasion ignores that senior members of Putin's cabinet were unaware until the very last moment he intended invading all of Ukraine. They assumed it would be a very limited operation in the Donbas and that the rest of Ukraine would be completely untouched (meaning even they didn't buy the guff of the dictator and the Putin bots that war against all of Ukraine was justified).

At one point they didn't even want ukraine to be part of the Minsk agreements they Putin only wanted to negotiate with the Germans, french and his buddy in Belarus,as if even back then Ukraine didn't actually exist

Even before Minsk the Russians had Yanukovych and his agents in power and they destabilized Ukraine. Orange Revolution - Wikipedia

And then there is this; Opinion | The Speech In Which Putin Told Us Who He Was - POLITICO

Here is the speech DP_Fillinger_Speeches.pdf (muni.cz)

And this is a reiteration of the substance of the speech

No. There was a small few sources who alleged Russia had not the resources to wage war, and another handful who claimed putin was at deaths door. Don't try claim it was a general consensus.

Russia may not give in, but they are definitely not in the position they claim to be. They are being largely held by a less well armed adversary. The only reason they are still in this fight is the reluctance of western nations to provide the means for Ukraine to win, as opposed to defend themselves.

The rouble is only strong because imports to Russia have fallen off a cliff. That's not the sign of a healthy economy.

There seems to be a substantial group of Irish people that think like this and its crazy that many of these people would condemn, bash and wont believe anything the US says but will parrot word by word anything that comes out of the Kremlin even after all the blatant lies and propaganda it puts out.

So first of all Russia invaded Ukrainian territory by anexing Crimea and then more or less invaded the eastern regions by stirring up trouble and sending in unofficial army personnel to help them. We seen the effect of this when the airliner was shot down. This then set the president for the trouble that followed for years after that.

Second, their was never any official request from Ukraine to join NATO even though they did express a desire to (and who would have blamed them after previous events).

As others have said, the NATO thing is a red herring anyway, when has NATO ever attacked Russian territory? It would never happen due to the risk of nuclear war and Russia full well knows this.

Thirdly, how was the initial invasion just supposed to be to protect the Donbas? when from day one they went full on to try and take Kiev and other areas in Ukraine?

And only then that was drawn back due to the comple balls they made of that attempt.

Fourthly, so you think after all that Russia has inflicted on their nation they should just roll over, disarm and let Russia make it another proxy state like Belarus? It seems the people of Ukraine dont want to accept that and they have done a damn good job of stopping it so far, even though they have now lost more territory in the east.

I just hope that the west and NATO has the will to keep standing by them to keep the fight for their freedom from Russia for as long as it takes.