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Dog snapped at daughters friend.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Why was the dog growling at a 13 yr old girl? Nobodys answered that. Once poster has even proclaimed oh this dog cant be trusted. How on earth would they know that?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When responding to a thread like this, I try to stick to the OP's situation, as much as possible.

    Try it next time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,115 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    The dog clearly felt uncomfortable in her presence. Maybe she had the scent of another dog or cat, maybe the dog didn't trust her. No one can say why the dog reacted negatively to her, but from the OP we know the 3 year old dog was never aggressive before.

    Why did the 13 year old persist in approaching and trying to pet the dog? Why didn't the 13 year old realise the dog didn't want her to approach? Why didn't the OP tell her to back off? These are the more important questions and ones we can get can definitive answers to as we share a language.

    Calling for every animal that reacts when cornered after displaying clear signs of discomfort to be euthanised is pathetic. They are not emotionless possessions, they are sentient and respond instinctively. Exactly like humans, despite how much you stress our importance over them.

    ETA: maybe answer the questions you quoted rather than shooting off in tangents.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Scott Tall Napkin


    I'm travelling at the moment and this thread has been very entertaining.

    Keep it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    You should never approach a dog face on, leaning over it to pet it, if it does not know you. It is threatening. Same as, you should never approach a dog asleep in its bed, leaning over to pet it.

    How would you feel if a stranger approached you leaning into your space with their hand out. They would get decked.

    These are basic dog rules for dummies, if you don't know that, you should not have a dog in your home as you dont understand their needs.

    Post edited by anewme on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I addressed it, but you chose to ignore it.

    You're just labouring the point now. No one knows why he took a dislike to this teenager.

    But what he did do, was use the communication tools he had - his voice by growling and his body language by refusing to approach them.

    We don't need to know the specifics of WHY he was growling. It's enough of a signal to know that he was.

    The situation escalated because the warnings he gave weren't heeded.

    If there is a next time (and there is no guarantee there will be a next time) the dog's owners will know better how to respond.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    You know dogs have a mental age equivalent to a 2 year old human on average depending on the breed this may go up or down, it's entirely on the human to control the interaction with the dog.

    And in my opinion all animals are equal, I've no more right to be here than a midget in the bog or an elephant in India, and another thing, I'd need bullet proof evidence if I was going to put down a member of my family (I consider the ugly little terrier at the foot of my bed a member of my family) not just a "doubt". To sum up if it was a choice in saving a strangers life such as yours or my dog I'd pick my dog every time



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Will you take on board a post from a "Millennial" whose grandparents (that you lived with/beside growing up) trained aggressive dogs with a bite history, and now works professionally with dogs, and whilst not as a trainer, would work closely with trainers/behaviourists precisely for aggressive behaviour? As well as owning aggressive/reactive dogs, and having had to make that horrid decision to BE?


    We don't know what happened in the OP. Only those in the house know exactly what lead to that situation. I've seen more scenarios where the dog is giving clear signals that the behaviour of the person, or other animals, is pushing their boundaries, those boundaries get ignored and the dog reaches threshold. So in this case, it's very likely the teen was acting inappropriately (such as looming over a small dog, moving too fast and startling the dog, being an excessively loud and scary person, etc.) and was told to back off. That back off was ignored. The dog escalated the warning to what would be considered Level 1 on the Dunbar Scale.

    Generally, Level 1 and 2 bites are what I encounter most often. They're usually a "please, I'm telling you something and you're not listening", and are thankfully, very much trainable. Most vets would refuse euth for a single incident. I would recommend the OP bring on a behaviourist if they're not actually sure what the friend did, in order to make sure the dog isn't put into that situation again.

    Level 3 and up bites need serious consideration. Some situations are accidental and the situation surrounding them needs to be accounted for (for example, I met a girl in A&E with a Level 4 bite but she stuck her arm in front of her dog that was defending itself from another dog attacking it. The dog never meant to touch her and so it wouldn't be considered something to be concerned about from a risk-to-people point of view). Multiple Level 3s are also considered Level 3.5. This dog didn't come close to these.

    However, if this is a new behaviour, then that "something" they're trying to communicate is very often pain or discomfort. One of the first subtle signs of pain is a change in behaviour and/or a lessening tolerance for the environment they're in. Always worth a vet visit first, as any professional worth their salt will send you there anyway.


    Whilst I agree that treating dogs like people causes issues, this isn't that case. The old school approach was more "oh, the dog growled at you? Quit pestering it and leave it be." If anything, now it's more of a shock to * some * when the dog acts like the dog it is and not a human.

    In this case, locking the dog away achieves nothing more than a quick plaster over. The real fix comes with what I wrote above; acknowledging dog communication methods, getting checked by the vet in case of an underlying reason, and then working with a professional.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    Boomer, someone born between 1946 and 1965, you're about 15 years outside the timeline, and I'm wondering was "boomer" used as an insult or what 🤣 if it was an insult I want a full apology. If it wasn't I'm not sure what you mean but carry on with your tedious ramblings



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    Jaysus.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles




  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Hahahah look at you demanding. After saying youd save your dogs life over mine , when was that up for debate? My life? Mentaller.



  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    You have ignored and failed to respond to so many logical, thought out responses to how this sort of behaviour should be dealt with. Instead you keep returning to hysterical responses like all dogs that growl at people should be put to sleep.

    If you really believe that all dogs should be happy enough to be handled and touched for any reason by any person with no negative emotional response then you have no business ever owning dogs or even being around dogs again. If you are unable to educate yourself or be open to educating yourself on dog body language and ensure the safety and comfort of both your dog and any people around your dog, then you have no business owning dogs.

    The OP came in looking for advice and for the most part got reasoned, balanced advice about reading their dogs body language and how to deal with a similar situation in the future. They appeared to take it on board and hysterical responses such as "the dog cant be trusted" and "this dog is aggressive" are not helpful to anyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    Of course I'd save my dogs life over yours, you're insignificant in my life, I don't know you and tbh the way you're carrying on here you seem a little bit unstable



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Comparing a stove and a dog? Really? The behaviour of a stove is predictable at the very least. I've seen what a dog can do to a child and dogs around children is at the least a risky situation. Thousands choose to live that way accepting the risks but Jesus don't knock people who believe there are different ways to live.



  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87




  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    The majority of dogs are more predictable than you think, its just people dont know how to read dogs body language. You see hundreds if not thousands of "cute" videos on the internet of children (and adults) antagonising very patient dogs who are displaying incredibly clear signals of discomfort (lip licking, yawning, whale eye, still body, ears pinned back, trying to remove itself) to show how much of a beautiful relationship their dog has with their kids. These same people are then shocked when the dog snaps or bites when a small amount of research or advice from a professional would have told them not to let their child cuddle and climb all over their dog.

    I will admit I knew very little about it until I got my recent rescue. He is a nervous guy who had a bad start to life and he has snapped at my husband and mother in law a few times. We sought professional help and learned what we were doing wrong and how to make the dog feel more secure and comfortable.

    Children should never have unsupervised access to any dog, i would agree that is risky. But mostly becuase people are unwilling or uncapable of educating themselves on their dogs. Young children in particular are impulsive and so should be 100% supervised around animals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    The comparison is with the child not the dog or inanimate object, it's the education of the child that's relevant, if you teach your child that stoves can be hot and they can get hurt and they still touch it where does the blame lie, parents should teach their children that dogs may bite, if after all that they still approach a dog that growls at them and shows reluctance at being touche in its own home the responsibility is 100 percent on either the parent or the child



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭kippy




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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Squatman


    Think people such as yourself are being blindsided by internet PC. in no way shape or form should the comfort of an animal supercede the wellness and comfort of a human. There are plenty of fruitcases who treat animals like people, and good luck to them. but never ever should the comfort of a dog, or any other animal come before the health of a human. no ifs ands or buts. the dog should be scolded, and left in no doubt over the pecking order.



  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    It has been proven that this does not work. By overly punishing their communication methods you are more likely to push the animal to escalating their behaviour. Dominance theory has been long debunked. Its not treating a dog like a human, in fact its quite the opposite. You are learning that dog body language and human body language is different and should be treated differently. Understanding that the dog is a sentient being that can be taught and trained in more effective positive reinforcement ways.

    By teaching children and adults to respect a dogs boundaries you are not saying that the dogs comfort supersedes theirs. You are teaching them how to safely interact with animals and that their desires do not mean they can just do what they want, when they want. Do you think that all dogs should just accept handling and touching from all humans at any time or they are aggressive?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Speaking in a strictly factual basis, zero emotion involved, just straight scientifically proven facts:

    1. scolding a warning signal leads to the dog skipping the warning signal and going straight to the bite.
    2. pecking order, dominance theory, pack leader etc., is a myth and has been proven time and time again that dogs do not work off those sort of social cues. The popular study that came up with that was debunked by its own author when they realised how flawed it was.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,770 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Folks,

    Can I remind you all that it is a requirement of this forum that people post with respect for one another. Feel free to debate your points, but not at the expense of treating others with respect.

    Most people are doing so.

    However @anglesorangles, you need to rein in the snipey comments. Calling people "Boomer" and "mentaller" are simply not acceptable in this forum.

    This is a final warning.

    Thanks,

    DBB



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    And its people like yourself that get perfectly healthy animals pts, you're on about people treating a dog like a human but expect an animal to understand its place and to rationalise like a human, do you expect children to read signs and body language like an adult???



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Why is it hysterical? Do you know why the dog got angry? Can you guarantee it wont happen again around kids? Didnt think so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Unstable??? You literally brought up me dying over your dog for absolutely zero reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    What about calling someone unstable? Id have thought thats the same as saying mentaller. Someone also said they would save their dog over me. Thats fairly insane language when that was never part of any debate. Not sure why posters hypothetical lifes are up for debate vs peoples pets.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles




This discussion has been closed.
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