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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ryan and the greens dont truly understand whats going on, they dont understand the complexities thats involved, such as rising wealth inequality etc, they just dont get it, i.e. i wouldnt call it an intention of preserving the status quo, they just dont get it....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Really EVs should have been deployed in the commercial sector first at least then the charging infrastructure would be up to scratch cause business would have demanded it



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are all car purchases in the country only done by the "well to do" as you put it?

    The stats on car purchases suggest that folks are shying away from ICE engines at an ever growing rate with EV purchases nearly doubling every year.

    Couple this with the fact that almost all car manufacturers have ceased development on ICE engines means that by 2030 virtually no new ICE models will even be available for purchase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes, we understand the core concepts that surround the dirty business of mineral extraction required to make batteries. We understand how they deteriorate over time. We also understand that disposing of the remains of these batteries is not straightforward. The ideas being proposed that much of our rapidly expanding demand for electricity is going to be delivered by batteries should be ringing apocalyptic bells as regards pollution and poisoning of the planet. So much for the Greens caring for the environment anymore.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...you would probably find most new ev purchases are probably being done by those higher on socioeconomic scale, leaving most lower on the scale in trouble, this is what happens in an environment of rising wealth inequality, i.e. it creates an environment of reducing opportunities of those lower on the scale in being able to do so, this is ultimately what our political classes dont get, and they really and truly dont get it at all....



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    My brother drives a taxi for a living and is thinking of changing from some gas powered yoke called LPG he uses to fully electric, I wouldn't have thought taxi drivers are high up on the socioeconomic scale



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Taxi drivers get exceptionally better grants towards EVs than other workers. I have a decent job in a factory and with mortgage and other bills, I know I couldn't afford the repayments in even a base model ID3......



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Well instead of transitioning to EVs my approach would be to make it unnecessary for most people not to require any kind of car in life, something like Eamon's amazing car sharing scheme idea would suit me as I wouldn't want to pay for one or have the burden of owning one



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Taxi drivers can get up to 15-20k in combined grants on switching to an EV.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    21st of July

    France 105g of co2 per mwh

    Ireland 331g

    source: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

    RELIABLE wind right now in Ireland is producing 79MW out of installed 6000MW

    Source: https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Well, if we rely on wind and solar, then the wind stops blowing in winter, we would need a proven backup to keep the lights on.

    We use gas for this. In 2020 57% of electricity was generated by gas.

    The Eu are telling all member states to cut gas usage by 15%.

    That hole has to be filled somehow, more than likely with coal, but we get coal from Russia so that’s not straightforward either.

    The green nuts will tell you there’s nothing to see here, but if we get a prolonged period of high pressure weather with no wind in winter (when solar is at its lowest) the grid will be under big pressure with a 15% gas cut



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Do you have the stats on how many EVs were “bought” on PCP?

    This is all a big debt bubble imo.

    Interest rates rising will put pressure on people up to their neck in debt. All of a sudden that shiny EV with a €700pm payment might look like a burden rather than a help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Forget your grants - they're simply more clueless green thinking

    How the heck is the national grid to support the charging of all these electric vehicles when the same grid is being banjaxed by the unreliable nature of renewable generation?

    And no the answer isn't more unreliable renewables and whatever other generation / storage technology will have to be firmly in place and maintaining sufficient and reliable supply before the majority move over to EVs or the public transport system is fully electrified and every house in the country is running a heat pump cycling on and off or even running continuously at certain times of the year 24/7.

    Even with that all working we will still need backup energy generation for the foreseeable future and that should be our own reserves of gas, biomass and whatever other indigenous resources we can muster.

    Even more clueless green policies setting the cart before the horse once again



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...but most car users arent taxi drivers, even though it may seem so, moving your kids around doesnt qualify you as such....

    ...again modern life almost demands private car ownership, without which, most probably wouldnt be able to function without so, another thing our polices simply dont get....

    ...again ryans car sharing scheme is also probably a non runner for many, as most are suffering with whats called 'time poverty', i.e. they simply dont have the time to change to other methods of travel, doing so, would simply mean taking even more time out of their day. we should also be including polices that demand the reduction of working time, i.e. moving the working week towards a 30 hour week etc, in order to give people back some time, then hopefully being able to implement such polices..



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Modern life demands car ownership because we've designed everything around cars unfortunately. I remember reading most people use their cars for journeys under 2km, which isn't really necessary for most people. I think people in cities could use cars an awful lot less if they wanted to, it's the convenience that people aren't willing to give up. Here in London, even in Soho there's just Range Rover after Range Rover driving around, when they have a world class transport system. Clearly fuel isn't too expensive for a lot of people.

    Car sharing is a non runner for many of course, but would also suit a lot of people. When cars lay idle for so long it doesn't really make sense for everyone to need to own one. It's the same with a lot of things, why does every house in a housing estate need a lawn mower? Hopefully apps for sharing things become more common in the coming years, there's so much unnecessary wastage going on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...an element is convenience, but i suspect its actually far more complex than so, most people require to commute in order to meet their daily needs, from consumption needs, for work, child and educational needs etc etc, if you force people out of the private car, this would more than likely elongate their daily lives, i.e. they ll simply need to spend even more time commuting, i.e. and less time resting and spending time with loved ones, this is far more complex than simple convenience....

    ...this is ultimately where polices based on stick measures could simply fail, you cant keep beating people with them, as they ll eventually snap!

    ...again, sharing resources sometimes does indeed make great sense, but what if everyone wants and needs those resources at the same time, and theres simply not enough available to do so!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    We all will need to be inconvenienced somewhat if we are serious about reducing emissions, luckily for you we are definitely not serious about reducing emissions!



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...if inconvenienced means more and more unable to meet some of their most critical of needs such as rest and time spent with loved ones, you better get ready for something socially catastrophic, and not just environmentally! we cant keep dumping this on the backs on citizens, they ll eventually tell yea to go get fcuked, as they actually already are.....and you d wonder why green polices are largely failing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why something that can be implemented before 2030 when you are going on about all these "additional" hopes up until 2050 ?

    What is it with greens who keep insisting that given time the real major polluters will see the error of their way and change, yet when it comes to Ireland all this change will have to occur before 2030, when from your own post it is clear that those 2030 targets are not going to be met and the hope is that by 2050 there will possibly be "additional" add-ons that will help.

    The French are not waiting around for possible additional add-ons of interconnectors, storage or green energy for their energy needs. They are going ahead with building more nuclear power plants that will provide them with zero CO2 emissions electricity. They already have 70% of their electrical need from this energy source, so not a stretch to believe that by 2050 they will have close to 100% without the need for these "additionals"

    In the EU from the outset the approach to lowering emissions by the two major players were diametrically opposed. France went with nuclear, Germany went with renewables spending 150 Billion to date, shutting down everything else and relying on Putin`s gas. Greens went with the German approach, (and none moreso that our home breed variety), pushing the German model by way of EU legislation. You do not have to be a genius at this stage to see where it has Germany compared to France.

    From your own post on the achievability of these targets, is it not obvious by now that the only way electricity is going to be produced with zero emissions is through nuclear, and all the money being spent on anything else is being wasted just tinkering around the edges and having little or no effect ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Showing my age, but I can remember a time when similar happened with farmers clubbing together to buy machinery. It didn`t last long as when even only two farmers were involved it generaly resulted in a rancour that only multiplied the more that were involved.

    By the nature of farming everybody wanted to use the machinery at the same time, then there was the question of damage to the machinery, often just through wear and tear as to who was using it the most. You will still find traces of the bad blood it caused between neighbours to this day. I cannot see it being any different today with cars. Car sharing may seem a good idea for work, but how many people live close together now that are going to the same workplace, or even starting and finishing work at the same time. Then you have the question off who gets to use these cars and when, and for how long outside of work.

    To me it`s very much just another green idea that has been thrown out there without any thought, and yet another that lowers the credibility of greens to nothing more than ideologists that when questioned on their ideology throw out the first idiotic "solution" that comes into their heads, Eamon Ryan being a prime example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    @charlie14

    In the EU from the outset the approach to lowering emissions by the two major players were diametrically opposed. France went with nuclear, Germany went with renewables spending 150 Billion to date, shutting down everything else and relying on Putin`s gas.

    France went nuclear because they previously mostly used oil and then got badly stung by the events around the 1973 Yom Kippur war. Pretty ironic really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    And are now lowest co2 emitters, see post on previous page where Irish wind is doing nothing today and our co2 intensity is 3x of France

    Environmentalists don’t care about solving climate change, if they did they would not be so rabidly anti science and evidence

    Post after post here it is evident that main driver is some weird desire to enact questionable social experiments on Irish population



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ok but we can't keep carrying on in a way that everyone needs to own a car, it is not sustainable, things like car sharing need to be looked at, I mean it's kind of already in Dublin with the Go Car thing, I know people who've used them from time to time who don't own cars, over here it's Zipcars



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As regards car sharing, nobody would use it for commuting to work. Car sharing options make financial sense if you rarely need to use a car. If you were using it as a commuting option you'd go broke pretty damn quick. Your use-case description sounds more like car pooling than car sharing

    As for damage, how the likes of GoCar work is when you get to the car you do an inspection, report any damage and cleanliness through the app and off you go.

    As for who gets to use them and when, you book your time through the app. If its not available, you can't book it. So lets say I needed to do a run to Ikea, I would book a van (if I needed the extra space), pick it up, head off to Ikea, spend a few hours there shopping, load up the van, drive back, empty it at the house and drop the van back to the designated location. While I have it nobody else can use it.

    This is how car sharing works everywhere afaik. The availability of GoCar near me was a massive factor in my decision to get rid of my car as I knew I could still get a set of wheel if I absolutely needed to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Indeed. Whereas France learned from history, Germany learned nothing and dug a hole of their own making doing exactly the opposite with Russia.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They look to be rectifying the situation though by rapidly increasing the rollout of renewables at a faster pace with the aim of hitting 100% by 2035 instead of 2050

    While coal and nuclear have seen a short-term reprieve there, the German's are still committed to removing both from the grid sooner rather than later



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    All I can tell you is that I have lived long enough to remember what the same formula when used caused among neighbours. I really do not see where repeating it will have a different outcome today. I`m not sure who actually owns the Go Cars but Zipcars are owned by the Avis Budget Group, so basically you would be just paying for short term rental using them mose-so than it being group car sharing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So what happens in Germany when they are 100% renewable and they get low wind for a prolonged period of time in winter?

    What’s their plan then?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That is not car sharing. It`s short term rental from a company where practically 100% of usage is for individual needs.



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