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This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    For whom is cost per km range all that relevant? Anyway a second hand Kona 64kWh for €25k is probably going to win that race. 450km summer range, so €55 per km. If you need a long range EV on a relatively small budget, it's the only choice.


    (although the last 2 EVs I bought did far better than that, both low range but were total bargains)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,034 ✭✭✭Casati


    Had a quick look at Irish and indeed UK prices and the cheapest 2018 new model Leaf here is asking €22500 (okay its an SVE 40 with just 11k on the clock).

    Might be worth looking at Japanese imports a bit more closely to see if there is some value to be had. That one listed above might be landed on the road here for €14500. Cheapest 2018 in UK is asking £16,500 so that would be €25k+ landed



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    You're right, the best bang for buck range car is the Kona 64 from 2019, but you wont see any for sale, folk that have them are holding on and €25k is no longer the asking, probably €28k+ and it will be snapped up immediately in current climate

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    ...and they are all getting new batteries so effectively back to max range at 3+yrs old

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    There was one mentioned last week for €25k asking I think. I agree, if you're in the market and one is coming up, you need to put down a non-refundable deposit immediately. Nothing much to worry about as they are all still under a few years manufacturer's warranty. People who procrastinate never get bargains...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,809 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Just on the Muxsan conversions and the insurance.

    1) should talk to insurance BEFORE doing the work.

    2) ensure that the Muxsan conversion is on the insurance paperwork when done - ie the insurance at 1) are happy to cover it.

    The problem kicks off if you convert it and don't tell the insurance that the conversion work is done.

    Personally I see the potential pathway to follow is - finding out who insures the cars converted from ICE to EV.

    Because an insurer willing to insure a car like Damien Maguires E46 conversion - would probably be more likely to see a Muxsan converted Leaf as insurable with the work fully documented.

    Theres a lot of huff and puff on the insurance issue from people whove never actually sat down with an insurer to discuss the conversion in insurance terms.

    I know they haven't because if they did they'd outline what the insurer said.

    Instead we have assumptions that.....

    1) insurers will say no

    2) insurers will say no

    When the only way to get to the bottom of this is having the conversations with insurance companies or a broker directly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭GalwayMan74




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    I think most of the MGs are coming in less than €100/Km range wise. Down as low as €85. Try actually get one within this calendar year though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Just beware on jap imports typically the radio/ infotainment system including menus for charging etc will be Japanese language only. There are Irish companies offering to swap out or reprogram them but it's not exactly easy. If you buy from an auction photo online you can't check battery condition, and then you need to pay whatever import taxes. That said lots of hybrid taxis are Japanese imports so it may make financial sense. You may also pay insurance premium for insuring a Japanese import as sometimes repair parts are specific to the Japanese model and no available from scrapyards here.

    In terms of bargains you do need to set up email alerts on the likes of done deal, but as said cheapest is not always best long term cost of ownership. The Kona does good bang for buck but it's relatively small so not ideal family transport. It's also missing some modern "must have" features such as adaptive cruise control at least on most (all?) Irish models.

    €/km range is a good benchmark in terms of total cost of ownership but beware the actual ownership cost is depreciation, so what is lowest depreciating car that does not break down regularly. The sweet spot for ICE is typically 2 to 10 years old, where deprecation is low and if you get a car with a reliable engine it should not cost lots in breakdown and unplanned maintenance. EVs are a bit different but brands like leaf have good aftermarket availability, and lots of online guides on how to repair. Even as scrap the leaf is worth a lot when broken down. I know most older EVs are becoming worth more than depreciating, so total cost of ownership is hardly anything if you can live with the reduced range.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I've only mentioned the first one before. The up and coming one is even much more of a bargain ;-)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    That's exactly my point. The guys doing these conversions just need to sit down with the insurance companies and get a broad agreement - does it need to be declared, or does it not.


    If the insurance companies or whatever regulator oversees them says it doesn't need to be declared, then sorted.


    But they haven't provided that assurance, because presumably they can't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,379 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah personally if the battery swap crowds were honest and said you should discuss with your insurance company beforehand, I'd be happier to think of one


    They're basing the "no modification" idea on the fact that a battery change is listed as minor works by insurance companies. Of course that's based on an ICE car and is referring to a 12v battery

    Would an insurance company allow the exemption or would they consider it a major modification? Only your insurance company can tell you that

    But it's wrong for a battery swap company to tell customers they don't even need to talk to their insurance company

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Well I suppose that answers the question.

    anyone who values range as their no.1 priority in an EV (like I would, in the Dublin commuter belt) is going to be looking at something like the 2nd hand Kona - that’s exactly the type of answer I had in mind, or I suppose a Soul and the rest of that family maybe too. Thanks

    450km range for the price of a 2nd hand Golf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    In the Dublin commuter belt? 😂


    You could commute from Galway to Dublin in a Kona 64kWh without charging en route. My 10 year old Fluence or a badly degraded very early Leaf would more than cover the majority of people's commute in the Dublin commuter belt



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Well I do days with 350km round trips on motorways, hence 450km summer range would probably cover my winter needs. I’m glad you like your old Renault. I used to have one too



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    But you said you valued range in the Dublin commuter belt 😂


    The Kona was popular when it came out in 2019 as it was the only affordable car that could do a very long commute and was suitable for people who regularly (as in weekly) did long trips (I'd say less than 10% of the cars do this). It was expensive for what it was but because of the above reasons it sold well.


    Most people new to EVs think they need far more range all the time than they actually do...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Just beware the Kona sometimes only achieves 270km range in worst case winter conditions at full motorway speed 120+km/h in winter with a headwind . If using it for a 350km daily you might need to slow down in the month of January if your whole trip is motorway at full speed. During lockdown with the roads quiet suddenly the commute was fast for me. If it's typical Dublin rush hour and not off peak shift travel you should be ok all year round. If suddenly stuck you could stop to charge. Slowing down to 110km/h when it's icy would probably suffice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    This week's EV bargain that I actually bought:





  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    For sale Rolec Wallpod car charge point. Tested working fine. Can do 11kW on 3 phase or 3.7kW on single phase. €260 but discount for anyone in here




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,178 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I wouldn't like to be Range Therapies insurer and looking at what they posted on their website regards insurance.

    Probably good advice to check with your insurer, or better again with the regulator before getting the work done. The one thing I will say is that it doesn't increase the speed at which the car can move so any increase on a premium should be minimal, if at all... But then as we know insurers are about maximising profits, not giving out premiums determined by risk.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,379 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah I mean realistically if the garage doing the battery swap is certified by some professional body (SIMI I guess???) then there should be no problems with insurance.

    I think if you can show some sort of evidence from the garage that the car is roadworthy and they're willing to stand over the modification then it should be fine

    But claiming you don't need to even speak to your insurance provider... not so fine IMO

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,729 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I wonder will prices go down on these "dumb" chargers when they are not eligible for grant installation from September onwards...



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Don't you know what way this usually works in Ireland? 😂 The old dumb ones stay roughly the same price. The new smart ones will go up in price, fueled by the subsidy now free for all, you don't even need to own an EV to get your free €600. What a waste of tax payers' money.


    The Rolec sold today, BTW. Going to be installed in an office where there is 3ph electricity. The owner has a Tesla Model 3, so he will be able to charge at 11kW (3ph, 16A). Mostly from his big solar PV array as he is currently just exporting to the grid with no payment for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,379 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I don't see the price going down on anything in this economy 😬

    I think unkel called it, they'll stay static in price, if you can even get one


    I've noticed the QuBEV charger seems to be unavailable now, I wonder has the market dropped out for dumb chargers

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I've sold two dumb car charge points in the last two months, both sold for €220. Can't really get them much cheaper than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Met a fella (boards regular) today who asked me for advice on buying an EV with that sort of budget, I of course recommended him an Ioniq. Then I saw your post here, so I just gave him a call with a heads up about your car

    Best of luck with the sale!



  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama




  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    amaziongly, the battery still seems to work as it powered up the dash and central console. Was thinking about a home energy storage solution.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Give them a ring and let us know. My guess is: silly big money for the battery alone and people are fighting each other trying to buy it. Last time I looked a single 5kWh Tesla battery module went for about €1000 on eBay. That car has about 20 of them iirc


    For your home power wall, it's cheaper and safer to build your own one from LiFePO4 CALB cells from China. Under no circumstances should you use a power wall made from cells from that Tesla - or from any other EV for that matter - inside your home.



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