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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭tibruit


    So you`ve moved on now from saying that there`s no DNA evidence to saying there`s no circumstantial evidence? Right so. Never took you seriously anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's at least not a motive I could ever see or understand to be likely.

    There could certainly have been a motive for Bailey, one we all don't know about and can't even speculate about? Maybe there was an ongoing feud between Bailey and Sophie which we also don't know anything about? It's not impossible to have been that way. No irony there from my side, and more than 25 years onwards, that's hard to even consider.

    And if it was just killing somebody just for lust of killing's sake, then Bailey could have chosen any other victim in the area.

    Also the effort of the murder would have been big for Bailey to handle that night. How many murderers would be able to spend the night in the pub, a longer night of drinking, then kill somebody leaving no trace at the murder site, and hiking for one hour to get to, and another back, - all without being noticed? I don't think Bailey had less than 4 beers that night, and then there is also Whisky to consider. Jules drove, for a good reason....

    And then there is the "spur of the moment" murder-idea, but that is also hard to understand for me, as Bailey probably didn't even know Sophie was there in the first place. She rarely if ever came around Christmas, - so if Bailey knew Sophie was there, it would have been by accident. Yes there have been reports Bailey rang Sophie's office repeatedly in Paris, possible freelance work for Bailey, however that was never confirmed, - no phone records etc.....

    If there was ever such a thing as a business proposition between Bailey and Sophie, she would have set an appointment, during the day. Bailey would have been seen or otherwise noticed coming and going, most likely by Alfie or Shirley.

    And Bailey hiking for one hour, completely drunk, arriving at Sophie's at 2 or 3am, to discuss business, freelance work, recite poetry, or demand sex or being sent packing with a bottle of French wine and then he finishing her of in a rage without leaving traces is more than unbelievable to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,804 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I think the events you describe are most likely what happened that night , They just make the most sense,

    But i also don't think it was Bailey but someone else ,

    I think it was someone she knew very well for her to walk down the drive way with them, I think if it was Bailey and the first time they had meet she'd have closed the door & locked herself in as she didn't "know" him , she'd have had more fear ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Regarding somebody whom she knew there is something which comes to my mind:

    The way the house is built, Sophie would have seen through the windows who was knocking at the door, any of the two doors the killer could have been knocking on. And assuming now that she wouldn't open her door to a stranger at night, she would have known her killer, - possibly quite well.

    But again, that's only speculation from my part.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,887 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    He had no motive to go there with murder in mind.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01


    I know it's hard for you to accept that Bailey isn't the murderer... Especially as the French courts have already convicted him of the same... But it just ain't so kiddo...

    The circumstantial evidence that you rely on has already been debunked multiple times - Sorry about that, time to get over it and move on.

    However, like yourself, a broken clock is right twice a day too..

    You read me correctly - There is no DNA evidence against Ian Bailey.

    And yes, there is no circumstantial evidence to support bringing Bailey to trial.. As per the last 25yrs plus has clearly defined..

    You are like the keystone cops of the day, you waste your time trying to fit the crime to the suspect, and not the suspect to the crime...

    You Sir.. Cannot be taken seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Gloves don't cover your arms. He may have reached over when the body was there to get something, would not have been in the briars during the attack just because she was. He says he got the scratches from trees on his property, btw. All of this is BS theory. All of it, from everyone on here. The drugs angle being the most crazy, imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,887 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The scratches were supposed to be on his hands too. If he was wearing gloves, he wouldn't have got scratches.

    If he got scratched there, why was there no blood \ DNA etc evidence left by him.

    It doesn't add up and never has and the DPP knew this.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jules drove, for a good reason..

    Jules didn't drive Bailey drove. Jules says in the RTE PBH doc that at closing time "Ian went and got the car" Jules was drinking too

    hiking for one hour to get to, and another back, - all without being noticed?

    Who would have been there to notice him?

    I don't think Bailey had less than 4 beers that night

    where did this come from.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe



    I've written this before.

    If Bailey's DNA is nowhere on Sophie's body or the murder site to be found, then he could never ever have gotten these scratches in connection with possibly murdering Sophie. I don't think that Bailey would even ever have had to answer how he'd gotten the scratches, - if his DNA can't be linked to the murder site or the victim, then that's it.

    The situation would be way different, if Bailey's DNA was indeed all over the murder site and Sophie's body. That would have been a straight conviction for murder everyone would have understood in both Ireland and in France.

    Bailey would also have had to bandage his scratches, stop them from bleeding, and clean up the crime scene? That alone, I find impossible, after a couple of drinks and also him bringing bandages to the murder site....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Cough, sneeze, wretch, spit and sweat where? Where would they collect that? The rock or the gate? Would they get samples from those in the 90s

    They would have been able to get DNA from saliva anyway, if there was any available of a large enough sample.There were tiny blood spots to tiny to analyse



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Absence (so far) of DNA and other evidence suggests either

    It was cleaned up carefully or staged

    The forensic investigation was totally botchched

    No other DNA/Evidence is there as the killer is a person(s) who are to be expected to visit the house/site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It sounds unorthodox, but was the housekeeper ever investigated? Was there maybe an argument between them about something?

    Or the engineer looking after the heating in the house? Wasn't that the reason she went to Ireland in the first place?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    What would be unorthodox about investigating a housekeeper who, along with other members of her family, had access to Sophie's house?

    And, what business did other family members have in that house?

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    The wine wasn't the champagne bottle. The journals seem to further debunk the Bailey angle. The axe/poker is an odd one. Bagged up and removed? Or taken and hidden. You also didn't mention the watch. Good idea though to search these further.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    What still surprises me is that no DNA was ever found on Sophie's body, nothing. Would this imply that the body may have even been cleaned? ( This always leads me to think the crime scene was cleaned thoroughly and staged ) or was there no DNA taken at all as the Guards were so incompetent? Also hard to believe, since the chief pathologist must have known how to do his job and would have to have found at least something.

    I find it hard to believe that if Sophie fought for her life, that absolutely no traces of DNA were found?

    This speculation starts to point in the direction of Alfie and Shirley again, they were the only neighbours around, the Richardsons were clearly not and they knew it. They both knew they were completely alone and that for a long time, or at least as long as it was dark. They probably knew when the caretaker would come to visit on the next day, if they were observant. Alfie and Shirley would subsequently have been the only ones to know with utter certainty that they would have no witnesses to the murder and would be undisturbed. Also Alfie and Shirley could have done the killing together somewhere else, and then carried Sophie to the place by the gates.

    Again, that's just speculation into a different direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The watch at the airport that had “Peirre” inscribed on the back?

    Turned out it was the maker’s name,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    You can't clean a crime scene like that because you'd have no idea where you should and shouldn't clean.

    The person either got lucky ie., struck first and she was immediately completely incapacitated. This doesn't really stack with the fact she had briar scrapes all over. Maybe, as people have mentioned she got a fright from someone while outside the property and tried to flee.

    Alternatively, maybe they knew how to get away with it i.,e double clothing, gloves, and proper weapon.

    Realistically it could be both once things went south, but the idea of "cleaning" the crime scene is misleading. You can't really clean a crime scene like this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Could her body have dragged somehow over the briars and brambles while she was either unconscious or already dead, and thus she would have gotten the scratches?



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭flanna01



    The only reference I have heard about a watch was from Nick Foster??

    Was he not pushing another book over Christmas when his revelation was made??

    Most people carry a time piece upon themselves, and I'm sure Sophie was no different? However, it hasn't been stated that her watch was missing..? She may not have worn one / owned one? (At least not in use on her visit to Ireland)

    Talking of which... Nick Foster has gone quiet...

    Was over the moon when the cold case review was approved and instigated... Fell off the radar when the investigators headed off to France...

    Poor Nick...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    A factor here is exactly how long her body lay undiscovered - as long as ten hours, possibly - and then what exactly the Gardai did to preserve the scene during the lengthy delay before,firstly, John Harrison and then the forensics boys arrived from Dublin. A strand of hair or thread of clothing belonging to the killer could simply have blown away .Any trace of saliva or spot of blood from the killer could have been washed away quite quickly. The local Gardai who first arrived on the scene would have been unsure as to how they should proceed with regard to preserving or gathering evidence. A murder like this was unprecedented in West Cork back in 1996.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Even back then & even if the local Garda didnt know how to preserve a scene like this (which is really inconceivable on many levels), its still completely implausible the perpetrator wouldnt have left behind some DNA. The gards made the argument for prosecution of Bailey on the scratches on his arm & Marie Farrells testimony mainly. Now if there was no DNA evidence of Bailey found under her fingernails from these scratches or anywhere else and on top of this, he was happy to give over his DNA/blood, that really points towards him not being the perpetrator. Are we really meant to accept their theory that Bailey was drunk & horny, walked a considerable distance over there, killed her in an extremely violent manner, was clever enough not to leave any DNA evidence whatsoever & then went back to the scene in the morning to report on it.

    The gards should've been happy this didnt go to trial because they would have been really exposed, comical drawings of scratches on Baileys arms, sending men up trees to show the scratches didnt come from there, the main witness being bribed & coerced into pointing the finger at Bailey, bribing addicts to get Bailey to confess with drugs. Its farcical and theres alot more of that. The DPP actually did the gards in the locality a favor.

    Again, Ireland wasnt 1960's Afghanistan back then, Bailey would have been aware we had a forensics team, a state pathologist but yet still he was happy to give over his blood and DNA. Just doesnt add up unless he's some sort of criminal mastermind which obviously he's not. Hes a full blown alcoholic and was drinking that night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    If you mean John Harbison, the state pathologist, he did not arrive at the scene until noon on 24th, more than 24 hrs. after the body was found.

    The forensics team arrived late evening of the23rd. less than 12 hours after the body was found.

    I believe the weather was cold and dry. The body and surrounding area was covered by Det. Pat Joy using 2 large tarpaulins by 1pm. on 23rd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    That's exactly why I think that Bailey didn't do it. There is actually way way less pointing to Bailey than to anyone else.

    The scratches on his hands and arms and clearly not his DNA on the body of the victim or at the site of the murder actually exclude him. Somebody else must have been the murderer, but the police were incompetent to even complete a simple task of collecting evidence. Even more incompetence is on the French judiciary to convict somebody to murder without any real evidence.

    The real killer was never found and convicted, Sophie's family never received any justice even though her son seems to think so and an innocent man's life has been ruined.

    Also the rest doesn't add up:

    If Jules and Bailey went to bed at 1.30 am, then Bailey would have arrived at 2.30 am at Sophie's in a drunken and horny state after a one hour hike through the rural charms of nightly South West Ireland. He then knocks on Sophie's door, starts reciting poetry, and subsequently demands sex, she refuses, they start arguing and a fight breaks out, where Sophie is killed. During the fight a bottle of French wine is thrown into the fields beside the house. Bailey still under the influence of alcohol, cleaning up the murder site, cleaning Sophie's body leaving no DNA traces, no fingerprints, and then hiking back to the studio to burn his coat, wash himself up and pretend nothing happened......

    And some people still think Bailey did it....... That's unbelievable. No wonder the killer wasn't found back then, with this attitude.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    If he had not offered give a blood sample he would have been regarded with suspicion to a greater degree than he already had been, incriminating himself. He had no option but to comply. These new tests being undertaken could unveil something with devastating consequences for 'ol Ian. He's not out of the woods yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    If what you're saying is true, then why would he have written to the garda commissioner to re-open the case three times. If he committed the murder, the logical thing for him to do would be to stay stumm. On top of this, he took two civil cases in relation to this case, one against the media & one against the state where he only lost because of the statute of limitations. This is a guy who obtained a masters in law from cork university, hes not stupid. People say hes a narcissist but a large part of narcissism is an obsession with money & vanity, Hes broke & looks like rubbish. There is nothing about his behaviour that indicates he committed the crime. The only thing against him is his domestic violence issues with Jules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I think, apart from being a narcissist, he is delusional, psychotic and possibly insane.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Yah but what you think doesnt matter a jot. Unless you're able to outline a realistic probably that Bailey committed the crime, its a mute point. Or know something the rest of us dont which I doubt



This discussion has been closed.
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