Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

pixelburp · 22-07-2022 7:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374126#Comment_119374126

Did France cause brexit?

Nody · 22-07-2022 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374147#Comment_119374147

Of course they did since we know France and Germany are really controlling the EU and refused to share that power with the UK who was really the one who knew what had to be done and were jealous of the UK. Because of this they refused some minor changes UK requested which was for the best of the union really and are now punishing the UK by not having enough staffing. It's all part of their plan to punish UK for throwing off the shackles of EU bureaucrats that were holding UK back from soaring up into the sky as they should. The failure to soar so far is all because of an EU lead cabal to hold UK back, hand waving hand waving, immigrants taking up jobs etc.

54and56 · 22-07-2022 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371786#Comment_119371786

Well in fairness I'd say two things:-

The people queuing for their family summer holiday cannot be tarred with the "Brexiteer" brush. I doubt most people looking to go camping in France or touring round Europe in a campervan are or were Brexiteers, no doubt some gammons were but I doubt it's more than 10% of the people queuing.
If France wants the income generated from tourists, ergardless of whether they're tagged as Brexiteers or not, they should smooth the entry process as much as they can, it's just good business.

FraserburghFreddie · 22-07-2022 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374216#Comment_119374216

Nothing as grand as that.Just good old French incompetence and pseudologia fantastica

breezy1985 · 22-07-2022 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374386#Comment_119374386

You would be surprised how many of the people heading for France are Brexiters. It's definitely more than 10% and is probably close to the 56% that won the referendum.

For instance the people in both the UK and Ireland who go to the Costas every year are the most likely to be anti EU of the people I know.

FraserburghFreddie · 22-07-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374448#Comment_119374448

Where are you getting the information for these claims?I ask as I am unable to find any reference to this.

breezy1985 · 22-07-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374472#Comment_119374472

Your right I should not have said "definitely" but I would be very surprised if it was as low as 10% and I don't believe going on holiday to Franc is dependant on your stance on the EU

54and56 · 22-07-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374448#Comment_119374448

I disagree with your assumptions.

Brexit was steered through by a massive vote from the retired "I'm all right Jack" blue rinse brigade.

Fast forward 6 years and a good few of that demographic are dead and replaced with people who were 12-17 at the time of the Referendum and although they couldn't vote were mostly Remainers as they wanted access to Erasmus, freedom to travel round the EU etc and weren't brainwashed over decades by the red tops proclaiming Johnny Foreigner was stealing their jobs blah blah blah.

There are of course a good few "Brits in the Sun" who voted Brexit without realising the impact it would have on their ability to live the dream of permanent non-resident status / cash in hand if working in Spain whilst picking up the dole or pension from the UK but they have now lost the ability to use their UK driving licences and are overstaying their 90 tourist visas as they can't qualify for 3rd country permanent residency visa's and are slowly but surely being squeezed out and forced to go home to dank grey Blighty where they'll regale all their pals down Wetherspoons on £1 a pint Wednesday about how the foreigners wrecked Spain and Spain (and France) are just taking revenge for Brexit etc blah blah blah.

CJhaughey · 22-07-2022 9:04pm

This type of situation will only get worse as the light touch type of regulation currently in place changes to full biometric checks in time.

France is a sovereign state and can police their own borders as they see fit.

The UK still has nowhere near enough customs officers to perform proper checks on inbound traffic the late figure I recall was that they would require 50k additional officers and they have employed nowhere near that amount.

breezy1985 · 22-07-2022 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374592#Comment_119374592

Those former 12-16 year olds are most likely not the ones driving to France for a holiday in a North French camp site I reckon.

Anyway anyone who voted remain and is in that queue will know it's Brexit and anyone who voted for Brexit will believe the lie about it being France's fault

First Up · 22-07-2022 9:18pm

Brexiteers sitting in the 5 hour queue at Dover will have time to reflect on their decision.

Sam Russell · 22-07-2022 9:24pm

The problem in Dover is not caused by the French passport checks - because those checks would not have changed much since Brexit apart from stamping the passports because they would be entering Schengen. Perhaps they take longer because of the 90 days element.

What is different is the huge line of trucks that used to roll on and roll off (the clue is the he name - RORO) but now have to have a few hundred pages of documentation for inspection. Then the are the customs inspections. These are all post Brexit and part of taking back control.

Maybe the French made it a bit worse, that is all. They will have to get used to it because it will be worse it's improving.

54and56 · 22-07-2022 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374631#Comment_119374631

Apologies, I didn't complete my point very well.

Basically, parents who are now 25-35 are far more likely to have been Remainers in 2016 but are now trying to give their kids the campsite type experience in France.

Also, the older gen in 2016 are no longer queuing for Dover, they're just too old. The "new" older group heading off in their campervan or to drive to their gaff in Spain are more likely representative of the 52/48 vote but I'd guess most of those taking the trouble to travel are not Brexiteers.

salonfire · 22-07-2022 10:35pm

I would see this a brexit benefit for the UK. After seeing the life threatening queues imposed by the French - and if it happened in the heat of a few days ago, it would have been life threatening - people will simply not travel.

That means more domestic tourism within the UK, similar to the staycations here during Covid.

Could be quite the boost for declining UK tourist destinations and allows people explore more of their own country.

Utterly stupid move by the French. They should have been advocating more inspection booths at Dover and do everything possible to ensure people on the ground are not impeded on their journey to spend their money in France.

salonfire · 22-07-2022 10:39pm

Nice of the EU to give Truss campaign a boost for PM by announcing further legal action today.

ancapailldorcha · 22-07-2022 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374920#Comment_119374920

That's quite the desperate bit of spin there.

Second class status abroad is not something people normally want. The British opted for this and must now endure the consequences. It's entirely their fault. It's not the responsibility of the French to accommodate the English and their crusade.

As for UK tourist destinations, how exactly do you propose to get to them? Public transport here is a mess. I've just come back from a conference in Birmingham. The train up was run by two people and was held at Birmingham International for f*ck knows how long (I alighted and got a taxi the rest of the way). There are more strikes planned and the last thing I want to do this summer is travel more than necessary. Plenty here will feel the same way.

Feel free to provide evidence of your claims but, as I said above, it reeks of spin.

listermint · 22-07-2022 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374935#Comment_119374935

The EU don't care nor should care about internal UK squabbling. All of they're pm choices are gas. It doesn't make an ounce of a difference.

The UK has to sort out UK problems themselves. Personally I'd vote for general strike. Put a pin in all of the Tory ridiculousness and theft

22-07-2022 11:10pm

All of Europe is experiencing travel chaos. Everyone knows this is happening. Everyone knows people trying to fly to the UK are experiencing delays, and vice versa. I had two cancelled flights from Germany to Ireland resulting in two nights stuck there, and it was just a part of life.

But once something happens at Dover, and it's because of the French, it turns into a political event, and remarkably, a Brexit benefit. I wonder if every other day of travel chaos this summer was looked at with similar SWOT analysis.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-07-2022 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374386#Comment_119374386

"If France wants the income generated from tourists, irregardless of whether they're tagged as Brexiteers or not, they should smooth the entry process as much as they can, it's just good business."

France didn't vote for Brexit. The need for extra checks is 100% on the UK.

France wasn't paid monies promised for border control by the UK. Little things like that add up and no French politician will be going above and beyond to help the UK on this issue.

France isn't introducing a pay for (costs TBC) Electronic Travel Authorisation for foreign citizens who can already enter without a visa. The UK is and it's essentially a visa for people who didn't need one until now. It's the exact opposite of smoothing the entry process. note : We Irish don't need one because already in the CTA.

To anyone who remembers the semi-annual strikes by French air traffic controllers this isn't completely unexpected.

Brexit : the gift that keeps giving.

ancapailldorcha · 22-07-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375050#Comment_119375050

I don't disagree. I've seen numerous complaints about the state of Schiphol airport over the past few days as well. I've nearly three weeks of leave to use by the end of September and I've no idea what to do with it. I wanted to go to Amsterdam or Paris but that means flights, buses and trains working properly.

But, yeah. Brexiters' inability to realise that the UK is not at the centre of all things European has become quite tedious. The EU doesn't care which Johnson loyalist succeeds him, only that they fulfil the basest obligation of adhering to the deal their party negotiated.

Igotadose · 23-07-2022 8:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374386#Comment_119374386

Disagree. s/ Brexit was a democratic victory (/s). Every UK citizen is Brexited, ergo, everyone driving to France is a Brexiter (not Brexiteer- those are the ones that voted for it. A Brexiter, that is, a current UK citizen who gave up their EU membership). Too bad it's inconvenient for them, that's life as a Brexiter.

pixelburp · 23-07-2022 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374920#Comment_119374920

France are applying the rules as they exist for the UK, but like many ports of entry at the moment, struggle with the volume. As with many situations an existing bad situation has been made worse by Brexit creating more chaos than would have otherwise been experienced. The UK wanted a hard border; this is what that means. No more trivial trips across the Channel.

Re. The boost to UK tourism. That presumes the (psychological?) appeal of amenities abroad is met by equivalents at home. Many people just want to get out of the country for a spell; I doubt those flying to Majorca would settle for Bognor Regis. The obvious comparator is here: has Irish tourism seen a significant bounce form local tourism? Aside from weather, Ireland is an expensive place to holiday.

ancapailldorcha · 23-07-2022 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374709#Comment_119374709

Tough.

Brexit is a package deal. It wouldn't have had a chance if younger people actually voted against it. One thing the Leavers were spot on about was that it was a once in a lifetime vote for real change. Unless you're a billionaire, you probably won't like the changes.

When people prioritise absurd economic and social peccadilloes over their own interests, this is the result. We see it most prominently in the United States but it's seeping into parts of Europe as well.

breezy1985 · 23-07-2022 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374920#Comment_119374920

It's stupid of France to "take control of their borders" and have tough and thorough checks ?

Sam Russell · 23-07-2022 10:34am

Truss appear to be setting a target for abolishing ALL EU laws from the UK by 2023.

This has implications for the NIP as it will increase the need for surveillance at the NI ports - surveillance that is currently not happening. The EU are readying more legal action against the UK as well.

Trade war incoming soon for the UK. Not sure which is likely to be the first target, but I would imagine it depends on which marionette gets the gig. Truss is the more stupid and if she gets it, the TW will be quickly started with no mercy. Sunak - perhaps he will back pedal fast and avoid it.

salonfire · 23-07-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375833#Comment_119375833

Stupid to leave six booths unmanned when people are desperately trying to spend their money in France, yes.

pixelburp · 23-07-2022 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375949#Comment_119375949

1. Many ports of entry are understaffed at the moment. See our own airport chaos.

2. "Desperate"? Hyperbole. we have no way of knowing where those tourists' onward destination is. Could be anywhere on the continent.

God forbid the true cause of this be recognised. This is the result of choosing a hard border. You get treated like an alien. It's not on France to accommodate the flood, but the British politicians who CHOSE to have their citizens become 2md class traveller.s

23-07-2022 10:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375916#Comment_119375916

Yeah, I read that they will be removed automatically at the end of that period. So thousands of laws to be checked and kept if seen as beneficial or bye bye.

It is so transparently ideological, I'm surprised it's even allowed.

Seth Brundle · 23-07-2022 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375949#Comment_119375949

How is the UK's recruitment of the 50000 customs staff going and if they haven't reached anywhere near this figure needed to meet the needs of Brexit then how are they taking control of their borders?

pixelburp · 23-07-2022 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119375656#Comment_119375656

One upside to Brexit, if economic self-sabotage can be called thus, is that it immediately nuked many Eurosceptic parties' narrative of ejecting their own country from the EU. Support bounces about country to country, crisis to crisis, but Brexit will exist as a cautionary tale for all those empty polemics who preach the myth of the totally sovereign state, curtailed by EU bureaucracy.

The obvious example being the speed with which Marine LePen dropped her own Frexit dreams from their manifesto. I don't it'll speed up the move to a totally federalists bloc, but for now it kicked a lot of malcontents to the ha'penny place.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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