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Issue with a neighbors tree & ESB

  • 22-07-2022 4:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭


    Hi all, some advice needed for my sister. She lives in a rural detached house with lots of trees. The issue she has is one tree in particular which is in a neighbours garden (who has agreed for it to be cut) and is huge and dead with branches and foliage falling on a daily basis and there is an ESB cable going through it. We had had a tree climber/surgeon come out to look at it to cut it but he said he wouldn't go near it due to the ESB cable and the fact that a branch had fallen off the tree from above on to the cable. It is a 240/480 LV line. Now we have had the ESB out to have a look and the ESB contractor has said they can cut the power to the cable to be safe and cut a hole through the tree line of 1 meter and stated that they could not go any further. The issue my sister has is that this does not stop the danger of another branch falling and if it does the wire could snap, to add to the mix she has a 4 year old autistic boy who if he sees a cable sparking he will run towards it and most likely electrocute himself as he has no sense of danger. What I would like to know is can the ESB walk away from this situation without actually topping the tree and taking the foliage/branches down beneath the electric cable (which is the property of the ESB).


    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    A 1 metre clearance is all that's required so is all you'll get. If you want the whole tree down then the neighbour will have to do it after getting ESB Networks to cut the power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    So even do there is a health and safety risk if the neighbour will not cut down the tree. According to their website they cut down trees when there is a danger that something will fall on the cable and this has already happened?

    Also have you had experience of this?

    https://www.esbnetworks.ie/help-centre/tree-cutting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes I have experience. They assessed the risk I assume when they decide the metre clearance would suffice.

    Post edited by Jim_Hodge on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Well the lad who came out said that the risk to the cable is mitigated with the one metre clearance however the risk of something falling on the cable still needs to be addressed as cutting a metre around it does not stop branches from falling. the lad said but this could be a year or 20 years down the road. My sister suggested the facts that a branch had already fell on the cable, the tree is dead and we are having a very uneventful summer with regards to high winds and storms would suggest that the threat is there and one bad storm could prove very harmful, add in the fact of her son having autism and no sense of danger it could be fatal. He said that decision was above his pay grade and to ring the ESB back up so she has relayed this back to the ESB so she is awaiting to hear what they say.


    Not trying to be too nosy but can you tell me what your experience was?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Then wait and see what they say. It's hardly a legal issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Well potentially it could be, say they the ESB cut a metre around and do nothing more and another branch falls and the cable snaps and her son electrocutes himself, would the ESB not be on the hook for not securing their equipment properly?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Perhaps tell her son not to touch the electric cable if the branch falls, the cable snaps and he runs out to pick up the cable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    As I have already said the boy is autistic, if he was on the m50 motorway he would run towards the cars, he has zero sense of danger, so does she have to keep her boy indoors all the time now?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I suspect the ESB are experts in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    If it's anybody's responsibility from a health and safety perspective it's the neighbour who has what she considers a dangerous hazard.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Doubtful that they would, you would have to prove that a negligent act on ESB Networks behalf gave rise to the event occurring. There would likely be a stronger case against the neighbour on whose property this dangerous tree resides.

    To be truthful the electrical safety risk arising from a low voltage cable passing through a dead tree is probably very low. The child being hit by falling debits from said tree might be higher.

    If you persist with ESB Networks they may well accede to your requests, but to be honest, I think your expectations of ESB are a little excessive.

    Post edited by Lenar3556 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    ESB are fairly professional and have expertise in this area, there's no money spared in education and risk assessment, if it was a real problem there'd be no tree. The little boy is 4 and not a 16 year old Autistic child, it's unlikely he'll be able to reach a live wire if the very very unlikely happens.

    I'd destress about the issue and take the professionals advice with comfort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,186 ✭✭✭standardg60


    What an annoying thread, the tree clearly isn't dead if it has foliage.

    Basically your rationale is that if your sister's autistic son is likely to run towards the traffic on the M50 then the M50 should be closed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    The independent tree cutting contractors used by the esb are usually approachable.. if you are there or the tree owner is there when they are topping/lopping ...you could ask for more of the tree be cut as they have powerful saws with long reach capabilities and a good TIP is very acceptable to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    It would take some branches to bring down an esb cable, why not let the esb cut down the meter all around and get the tree surgeon back to finish it off



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,921 ✭✭✭Odelay


    I'm reasonably assured the M50 isn't in her lawn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I didn't come to the conclusion that the tree was dead my sister had an expert (tree surgeon) in looking at it to have it cut down and he was in and showed her the trunk which in his opinion was dead so he said that the tree was dead if you cut the top it will not grow again. My sister would not proclaim to be an expert but the ESB guy who came out also said it was dead, so don't shoot the messenger. As for the danger, the danger is if a branch falls (which there is evidence of as there are a load of branches already on the ground around the tree) and if a branch hits the cable and it snaps the cable will come into my sister's garden, the branches falling are on the ground is not the danger as the boy is unlikely to be out while its windy or if there is a storm but its the cable that is currently located in a very precarious position running through the branches of the tree that 2 different experts have said are dead (including one from the ESB) The branch that I seen on it with my own eyes was huge and was caught up with other branches and the ESB cable was bowing under the weight. So IMO there is a danger of say there being a bad winter and that cable snapping. The equipment is the ESBs so should it not be up to them to secure their property from a potential health and safety issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    It sounds like the ESB equipment is secure.

    It sounds like the tree is not secure.

    Therefore it's the responsibility of the tree owner to sort.


    Just opinion, definitely not a lawyer here!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I would argue the positioning of where the ESBs wires are is what is causing the risk. If the branches of the tree where to simply fall to the ground there would be no danger if they fall on the wire there is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭10-10-20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Good question not sure to be honest, she bought the house 2 years ago I can see from planning perms it was constructed back in 2004. I will tell her to ask the neighbour she might know, would that have any bearing on this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    This 1 meter clearance, are you sure this is going to be like a tube cut though the branches, as you describe, or 1m around the wire and everything above it at 1m width?


    How high does the tree go above the wire?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Yeap that exactly what was described by the ESB. It goes easily another 30+ foott above it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Probably none, but I'm trying to use it to illustrate that the tree was probably placed there after the wire and hence has grown into/around the wire - so how could this be the ESB's fault other than to reasonably offer to maintain a 1m clearance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Not sure which came first do but if the ESB cables came in after then they put it in the wrong place, ah and it isnt there fault at all its nature. It is their equipment and the tree is not my sisters and you cannot force a neighbor to cut a tree so the risk of the cable snapping is still left with my sister which I do not think is fair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    The child is 4 years old, must be a very resent diagnosis.

    Anyways when the esb say they cut 1 meter around the tree it is intact a large v from the crown of the tree.

    Witch ends in a one meter gap around the cable.

    It will be cut in a way that only branches that could break fall outwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    I'd like confirmation of the 1m clearance. The reason is we get whatever tree surgeon has the contract down at the house every so often which is about 3 times in the last 20 years. Anyway they always cut any of our trees that are getting near the line back by 2 meters. The work is free but they don't bother clearing up after themselves.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    As I said, I’m no lawyer so maybe the law is in your favour.


    But if it comes down to it:


    The tree is dead. It serves no purpose.

    The wires are live. They give you power.


    Therefore the problem is the tree and the owner should sort it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 374 ✭✭delboythedub




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    It's usually a whole trunk of the tree falling that results in fallen electricity wires .. they'd be strong spring back in electricity wires with the way it's coiled



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭macvin


    Usually when someone catastrophises a situation, ears close. the reason is nearly all these "catastrophe syndrome" types know absolutely eff all about the subject as can be seen here.

    ESB networks have a world renowned safety record and a large portion of their business is advising other networks and supplying experts to do electrical work in countries all over the world.


    But then the op probably knows better because someone on tik tok or facebook said......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Joke.

    Be a responsible sibling and assure your sister the experts know best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    How can you catastrophises a potential health and safety issue (does the ESB have expertise in dealing with kids with autism if they have can you show me some literature on it please seeing as you are the expert). She was getting the tree cut and was advised by an expert and then an ESB expert came out and agreed the tree was dead, he could see the branches on the ground and the big branch that was on the wire which had fallen he gave his report and the area manager is coming out and is having a look to see what is the best way to approach it. I think she has approached it the right way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    My son has the most severe autism on the spectrum including other neurological disorders he ten now.

    You nephew is 4 years old.

    Any child of that age could run to an electrical wire if damaged autistic or not.

    Going by the age of the child your sister and you the whole family are going true acceptance of the child's disability, this is also a time of risk adverse.

    You will see any danger and multiply by ten, I know I did it.

    You will ruin your lives doing this.


    In general, Their is no legal obligation for any company to take into account if the child or person is special needs individually. As there health and safety Is for the border public than individual person.

    Your sister and neighbour can submit a case to the esb for removal of the tree due to the circumstances In relation to your nephew.

    Best of luck with everything.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,639 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    As an autistic adult, the responsibility of caring for the child would lie with their guardian and not ESB.

    We recently had ESBn out due to a branch falling on a wire and causing very low voltage (67v). The 1 meter threshold was explained and they cut back the trees. You have no entitlement to cut , or to demand they are cut, the neighbor's trees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Well we will have to disagree if there is a health and safety risk and it comes in the form of their equipment being the dangerous element.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    But the esb have all ready came seen the tree and told the party's involved how they will remedy the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    They have told me how they will clear 1 metre through but the health and safety risk of a branch above falling on the line again has not been resolved yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    As I said in a previous post they cut a large v shape from the top of the tree down to the cable the a area of on meter around the cable .

    No over hanging branches will be left to fall on the cable.

    I've attached an image to give you an idea.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    If they do this the tree will become unstable as it is dead and could well result in the tree falling which could be even worse than the cable coming down as the houses on either side are right under some of the branches. Look I ain't an expert I will see what the area manager has to say about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭a_squirrelman


    This thread is bizarre to me, I think the responsibility lies with the parent to make sure their child doesn't approach a hazard, be it a pond, a road or an electrical wire.

    On top of that spotting potential risks two or three steps ahead is unrealistic. I COULD be hit by a car tomorrow. Bad weather COULD lead to a branch falling on the wire which COULD lead to the wire breaking and then if by some miracle the child's parent doesn't notice this the child COULD approach the wire.

    The reality is we usually notice when electrical wires are not over our heads anymore and are on the ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭fliball123


    You need to look back at the specifics on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yourself and your sister need to get a grip on things. In Ireland, there have been 40 electrocutions or deaths from the explosive/burning effects of electricity from 2001 to the end of 2020. Of those, 25 deaths have been associated with a work activity. The remaining 15 have occurred in domestic situations or as a result of trespass, vandalism or in one case a fallen overhead power line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Pistachio19


    But haven't you said that the neighbour is willing to get it cut? So if the ESB cut their bit back can't the neighbour then get the tree surgeon back to finish the job? It will be a case of maintaining it from then on, as it should have been done over the years, before it got to this dangerous stage. Or the neighbour can choose to cut the whole tree down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭Deub


    The case seems simple enough: both owners agreed to cut the tree. The tree surgeon doesn’t to touch it because of the esb line and esb doesn’t see the need to cut it but only a 1m clearance.

    2 solutions left:

    Find another tree surgeon that would agree to cut it or let ESB doing the 1m clearance.



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