National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

Agent Avenger · 20-07-2022 6:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357728#Comment_119357728

Are you near Carrigtwohill by any chance? I’m across the harbour near Passage and it looks like around Carrigtwohill, Mahon, Blackrock, Passage and Monkstown are all part of the same deployment area. I’ve asked the guys installing our DP last week when it would be ready to connect and they said September, I asked a another lot further down the road last month and they also said September too so they still seem to be on track and hopefully won’t it won’t be pushed back anymore.

Blowfish · 20-07-2022 8:55pm

Job done. Hoist person took a while on his jobs so didn't get here until about 4.15, but he and the original installer worked away until it was done. Here's the difference, from mobile wifi to 500mb fibre, though the mobile wifi was having a particularly bad day, it usually averages 12-15mb with nudging above 20 on a good day. The 551 is obviously via wired, definitely don't get that through all of the house via wifi, especially as the Fritzbox is in my office which acts a bit like a faraday cage at times, but planning on going with a mesh to help out.

Though speed and all is nice, I think I'm most looking forward to the reliability as the mobile wifi just has way too many random latency spikes like in the screenshot and randomly drops for a few seconds every few hours, especially with heavy cloud cover/rain.

PaulJoseph22 · 20-07-2022 11:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365748#Comment_119365748

How are you getting over 500mbps if you have 500 mbps fibre?

oscarBravo · 20-07-2022 11:09pm

NBI overprovision to make sure that 500Mb/s is always available even when factoring in protocol overheads.

clohamon · 21-07-2022 7:30pm

Department have issued a second State Aid report. Nothing much in it that hasn't been flagged around here already.

They are designing "An evaluation Plan" due for next summer - the halfway point, but don't sound very cconfident that the schedule will have caught up by then.

Year 3.5 was agreed upon against this being the expected midway point of the rollout, with approximately 50% of the premises within the Intervention Area passed at this stage. One thing to note for the Commission is the significant challenges arising during the first year of the contract, largely due to the impact of Covid-19. This impacted delivery of original milestones under the contract. Although this is being dealt with under the relevant contractual provisions, these delays may influence the content of the Interim Evaluation Report.

Namely, targets achieved at year 3.5 of the National Broadband Plan may not be comparable to those achieved by previous projects due to these delays. More specifically, the impact may be on the levels of premises passed, and subsequent take-up. In Year 3.5 these may not be at a level to provide the necessary data for the Interim Evaluation Report.

heavydawson · 21-07-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366341#Comment_119366341

Is that just for the 500mbps product? Not the same for the 1 or 2 Gbps products WRT over-provisioning?

oscarBravo · 21-07-2022 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369633#Comment_119369633

I suspect they overprovision those also, but most people will be hard-limited by gigabit Ethernet.

heavydawson · 21-07-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119369746#Comment_119369746

I have 2.5gbe end to end from the ONT to my desktop, and have never seen it going over 930mbps. I wonder if the 500mbps is overprovisioned because that's the minimum speed they need to offer from their own SLAs to any CPE

eastie17 · 22-07-2022 4:16am

East Cork. Ordered 2 months ago from sky, install date Tuesday. Router arrived Monday. Installer looked at the cable route from the polls, shook his head and said we need a hoist, none available, will rebook you in. Got a text to say new install date in 3 weeks.

would it not make more sense to do a site survey before setting the date? Wasting everyone’s time including the installer.

garyc151 · 22-07-2022 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365017#Comment_119365017

Been trying to pre order last few weeks keeps getting cancelled half mahon gone live and I’m in mahon my ftth going live 27th this month they tell me eir when I ring also got call off digi web saying going live 27th if I want to order have my order in with pure but can’t get a date for install till it goes live

Tony H · 22-07-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372869#Comment_119372869

Hi im in Cobh and pre ordered on 17th June , was given an install date for 29th July , went live a few days ago and confirmed my install date wit nbi , Wednesday this week KN called me giving me an install date of 9th August , apparently they just got the order on the day it went live , threw a hissy fit and told them my neighbour who did not pre order got an install date for the 8 August , a day before me ,

anyway the girl from KN was sound and sorted me out for 2nd August , apparently the first for installation in the area

so apparently preordering does not make much difference .

So 11 day to install and counting

Bass Reeves · 23-07-2022 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119370799#Comment_119370799

Not really it's the same staff that do it. If an install fails you just do the survey then. Having staff survey every site and maybe 60-80% are straight forwards installs is a waste of resourses

heavydawson · 23-07-2022 2:30pm

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/2205a-update-on-the-delivery-of-the-national-broadband-plan-summer-2022/

Update from Government on rollout

amdaley28 · 24-07-2022 12:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119376845#Comment_119376845

I take it we can ignore that so 🙄

The Cush · 25-07-2022 12:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267365#Comment_119267365

The transcript of Peter Hendrick's appearance before the Communications Committee was published this week, some points raised during the discussion on the infill and rural extension trials.

Two trials commencing this month, urban infill using leased lines and rural extension using wireless.

Peter Hendrick unless stated

We have looked at a number of options for what we call rural extensions or very remote rural locations. The island programme is one of these scenarios where we are bringing connectivity to the islands. We have a programme to complete all of the islands. It might have been further on in our original programme plan. We may have updated the committee in March on looking at existing infrastructure that we can utilise to provide services for urban infill, adjacent infill and these rural extensions. We have run a procurement process with the telecoms industry. Two trials will commence in July for some of these services to see whether we can get connectivity to these premises.

We are looking at wireless technology with one supplier for providing connectivity.

Again, we have to consider this in the long term. It might be an easy fix today in terms of providing connectivity but in the long term, through a lifetime of 25 years, the availability of bandwidth as demand grows and the cost of operating that may mean that it makes sense for us to deliver fibre to those premises. It is a balancing act but it is certainly something on which we are actively engaged right now.

In our update in March, we shared that we had reached a pre-qualification stage with five bidders. That subsequently went down to three, and we could see the rationale for the three in terms of urban infill. In areas such as Dublin we have a number of amber areas in a predominantly blue area. We have adjacent infill where the threshold between blue and amber is at a particular level. The rural extension is very remote and will be dealt with in 2025 and 2026. We now only have two bidders. They are predominantly dealing with urban infill and the rural extension. We do not have an infrastructure partner today for the blue and amber transition.

Chairman: The two bidders will deal with what?

They will deal with urban infill, where there is infrastructure in an urban area where there is also fibre very close. That mainly involves one-off homes in an urban environment. Rural extension is more remote in terms of wireless technology.

In the urban areas, what we would look to do, rather than necessarily adding a fibre connection to some of the premises in Dublin, is to procure what we classify as a fibre leased line from the likes of Eir or Enet. It would be a more expensive service but over the life of 25 years it would still likely be cheaper than us bringing fibre all the way through Dublin to connect.

Chairman: That is because there is a volume of premises to justify it.

Correct.

The Cush · 25-07-2022 1:02am

On the adjacent infill or the gap extensions as the Committee referrers to them, that is those premises eir stopped short of in their rural rollout.

Eir doesn't offer a passive product, as yet (maybe never?), that would allow NBI to connect into the end of eir's rural fibre network at selected locations, not included in the trials.

When we talk about what we call infill, some of those are premises that are currently amber premises. We have defined them in terms of how we are looking at it from a solutions-based approach. We define them in terms of adjacent infill, where they are next to what we call a blue area, where there is a commercial operator, or urban infill, where premises are more urban but there is not a commercial network providing a service today, and then rural extension. As part of the procurement process that we have under way, we have engaged with a number of infrastructure providers to see how we could extend parts of our network and their network in terms of finding a solution. It helps us to also focus on the wider roll-out plan and the acceleration plan.

That is under way at the moment. We have gone through pre-qualification to see if each of these infrastructure providers can meet the contractual requirements in terms of service obligations, future-proofing and the SLAs, and we have had a positive outcome from that. We are going through that framework process over the coming months and we will have a pilot early next year. That pilot is to test that all of the technical pieces work and also the integration between our software systems and their software systems, where appropriate. Quite a lot of work has been going on since the beginning of the year to look at this.

Peter Hendrick 15 Sept 2021

At Committee in late June

Chairman: The gap intervention area refers to 500,000 or more premises. Those areas beside blue areas have existing fibre broadband networks like Eir. Under the roll-out programme, a neighbour might not see fibre broadband going in for another three or four years. People look over a ditch at neighbours who already have fibre broadband. I know NBI is doing a body of work and was going out to tender to determine what it could do in that space. It is a space that is significantly relevant to us. I am in Limerick city but I cover a good rural area. This issue affects peripheral areas outside of the city. What is the current position?

Peter Hendrick: In our update in March, we shared that we had reached a pre-qualification stage with five bidders. That subsequently went down to three, and we could see the rationale for the three in terms of urban infill. In areas such as Dublin we have a number of amber areas in a predominantly blue area. We have adjacent infill where the threshold between blue and amber is at a particular level. The rural extension is very remote and will be dealt with in 2025 and 2026. We now only have two bidders. They are predominantly dealing with urban infill and the rural extension. We do not have an infrastructure partner today for the blue and amber transition.

Timmy Dooley: There is an intermittent phase between where one company finishes work and another begins. I made a lot of noise when it became clear that NBI was going to run a parallel network alongside the existing one. Has NBI looked again at dovetailing onto the end of a line? People in this room know a lot about what Eir did when it passed 300,000 premises, then truncated it and left a black box, with another ten houses up the road. I assume Eir assumed that, when it won the contract, which it did not since it did not even go for it, it would just attach a length of fibre to continue from there. Those of us who do not have specific training that NBI has assumed that NBI would just dovetail at the end of that line. It has not chosen to do that. Has NBI given further thought to that? Would it speed work up?

Peter Hendrick: We did not. The reason for not doing that was largely that the intervention area is not clean. It is not a case of every home outside Dublin or an urban area being in the intervention area. There are premises throughout the country involved. Urban areas, such as some near here, including places in Clontarf, Dollymount, the airport or Dublin Port are in the intervention area. They are extreme cases. Even if we were to plug in, we still have to go back in to connect homes. Coming out from areas where we have existing backhaul fibre, we are still passing premises in the intervention area. That was a critical part of our assessment. Beyond that, we looked at operational integration issues, including the matter of operating this network over 25 years. It is a passive cable down which we send light. We have to keep records of the length of the cable and of any breaks or resplicing. We have to know that the light and connection on that cable will work over 25 years. Future-proofing is a concern. There are great operational challenges involved in interfacing with two passive networks as an access network. Finally, there is the cost of renting that infrastructure compared with the cost of building one's own infrastructure and there was a significant delta in that. We did not just say that we wanted to build our own network. There were three sides to the evaluation.

There might be some value in looking at adjacent infill. We engaged with Eir about that. It is not a product that it made available. We are looking at that, with the regulator, to see if there is value and the quantum of premises whereby it would made sense for Eir to offer as a passive product. We would not be plugging into all its fibre network, it would only happen in specific scenarios where we see the merit of it.

...

Peter Hendrick: ... The urban infill is very straightforward. The adjacent is more challenging. Bringing deployment areas forward where we buy back---

Chairman: In layman's terms, I still do not understand if it is technically possible to link those houses in the gap intervention areas that are alongside the blue in rural villages, where they have an Eir fibre cable not that far away, into the existing fibre cable? Is it possible to buy that capacity from Eir?

Peter Hendrick: Technically, we could do it. There is a lot of risk and cost associated with doing it.

Chairman: Why?

Peter Hendrick: We cannot determine the performance of the network, the distance the light is travelling across those cables, over 25 years. We cannot guarantee a future-proofed service. Also, the cost of renting that infrastructure is greater than actually putting our own fibre on Eir's poles. Operationally over 25 years, my most important focus is that there is never a need for another intervention plan and that the NBP network can both technically and financially support the operational cost of servicing all 560,000 houses.

snapper365 · 25-07-2022 11:58am

Has anyone here switched provider since they had NBI installed? I appreciate I'm fortunate to have had the service long enough for this situation to arise, but I'm slightly confused by it so hoping someone else has experienced it.

We got installed with NBI a year ago, and signed up to Sky at the time. That was a 12 month contract so it has now ended (500Mbps for 35 euro pm, would now become 60 euro pm).

I sort of assumed that they would renew at the same rate (it's still available as an intro offer on their website) but when I spoke with their renewal team this morning, the best they could do was 47.50 per month.

Vodafone have a 12 month contract for 35, so I told Sky I would just switch. They said fine, here's your UAN number. I called Vodafone and went through their sign up. I assumed it would be a case of them sending equipment for a self-install but the guy was adamant I need an appointment. Is this the case, does anyone know?

baz9375 · 25-07-2022 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384255#Comment_119384255

Hey Snapper

I switched from DigiWeb to Arden Broadband in May.

Sign up process / order form included installation / engineer visit but I emailed them direct to say I had all installed including ONT.

The emailed me back to say no visit or installation needed, posted out new router and advised of switch over date and time.

service was down for about 20 mins in total including change over of router.

oscarBravo · 25-07-2022 12:46pm

It may be that Vodafone have no process for delivering routers other than sending them with a KNIS tech.

snapper365 · 25-07-2022 1:58pm

Thanks both. The thought did strike me that the install visit might be required as they don't post out routers, which would be barmy but is very possible.

The VF rep was initially insistent that I would need an install done simply because my eircode "was NBI". I would imagine he's only ever signed up brand new NBI connections to date, so I had to work to convince him that I actually have the service a year at this stage. I guess that's the price of being an early recipient - they won't have seen many NBI switchers yet.

I think I'll wait until someone rings me regarding the installation appointment and bring it up with them. Though that will likely be KN so I wouldn't expect they'll give much of a sh*t either, their appointment team always sound bored to tears.

The guy on the phone kept reassuring me that the installation visit was free, as if cost was my only concern. I just see it as a monumental waste of resources to send out an engineer for something like this.

heavydawson · 25-07-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384831#Comment_119384831

It might be worth reaching out to NBI themselves on this, just to let them know its occurring (as opposed to them trying to solve it for you). I'm sure they'll want this operational stuff running smoothly as the initial waves of customers run out of the 12 month contract. If you have the time, fire them off a quick email and/or DM them on Twitter perhaps...

Nolars · 25-07-2022 5:55pm

Failed install today arrived at 4pm and said they need a hoist will get a call for another appointment. Waste of time.

heavydawson · 25-07-2022 11:33pm

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/07/global-shortage-of-fiber-optic-cable-threatens-digital-growth/

I sure hope NBI pre-ordered the bulk of their fibre....

Martijn Blanken, chief executive of Exa Infrastructure, an international digital infrastructure company, said fiber prices had increased by at least 20 percent over the past six months and that “in some cases it’s so erratic you need to check it by the day.” “We add clauses with our clients so that we’re not liable for these price hikes,” he added.

This has led to significant increases in lead times for some fiber products, stretching out from 20 weeks to almost a year for many smaller customers.

“All of us are prioritizing giving fastest delivery to our biggest customers,” said Ankit Agarwal, managing director of STL, one of the largest fiber suppliers in Britain.

WestWicklow1 · 26-07-2022 1:08pm

Update (in bold)...

Area: West Wicklow. Specifically the lane I live on. Blessington DA.

September 2020: One man and an Actavo/NBI van doing a survey.

December 2020: One man taking pictures of poles etc.

26th March 2021: Contractors cutting hedges and trees.

30th August 2021: A crew arrived and strung fiber between the poles.

During the week of 11th Oct 2021 to 15th Oct 2021, a crew arrived and installed a lot of DPs (much more than I expected).

~~Anticipated availability: October 2021 - December 2021.~~

~~Anticipated availability: January 2022 - April 2022.~~

Anticipated date for connection: April 2022 - June 2022

28th December 2021: My EirCode has moved to "Available for pre-order" in the last few days.

28th January 2022: Pre-ordered with Sky. 500Mbps €35.00 pm for 12 months, no installation fee. Install date 7th July 2022.

1st July 2022: My EirCode has moved to "Ready to Connect". - That's 6 months in "Pre Order"!!

8th July 2022: Received an install date from KN Circet of 26th July 2022.

26th July 2022: One man from KN Circet arrived on install day to do a survey (my words) and declared that duct was blocked, nothing would happen today and KN would be in touch at a later date after duct is unblocked. To be honest, it's what I expected so no big surprise.

Tony H · 27-07-2022 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389033#Comment_119389033

That’s annoying to say the least , I’m hoping they will have a hoist with them when they come to me because there’s a lot of new growth near the nearest pole .

stephen.dunne · 27-07-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393861#Comment_119393861

You may have issues with the moratorium on tree work until the 1st Sept. That's the situation my parents are in, albeit with so much work to do they need the dedicated tree work team. If it's not too heavy the installers might just do it themselves.

Tony H · 28-07-2022 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394190#Comment_119394190

I have DP’s on both sides of our property ,one has trees that need some pruning , the other is over the roof of my sons cottage (clearance is tight but doable) 38m drop to the house , so increases the odds of a successful install I think .

DaveHD · 28-07-2022 3:51pm

West Wicklow Blessington

Waiting, Waiting Waiting moved out of preorder had appointment set for today 28 July.

Of course KN Circet turn up unable to do anything as the fibre has not been connected from the road to down my lane. This (when it happens) is will be strung from 3 poles then a duct as I have overhead powerlines crossing the property to the pole outside the premises then overhead to the house. The KN Circet guy was most apologetic but in truth issue isactually has nothing to do with him he simply does installs. He asked if the house was surveyed prior to the appointment for going live for order. Reply is "of Course Not". Also will need a hoist as trees need trimming back to run the cable and some of the poles are dodgy to say the least. He said it happens ALL the time. He has taken pictures for a survey and KC will get back to me to set another date

To be honest in my hearts of hearts I knew it would not happen today. Lets hope before Christmas! (2022)

snapper365 · 29-07-2022 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384255#Comment_119384255

So an update on this. The KN engineer called out today, I asked him whether an engineer was actually required to do a switch, he said that he's done a few already so it does appear to be the case, although he'd only done them for new VF customers, so possibly people switching to other providers who send out the modem can do it without a visit. Anyway he was here about 30 minutes, said NBI require a bunch of checks to be done on the connection so he was taking photos of different tests he had performed.

He also said NBI connections are the most stable he's seen in terms of speeds etc.

WestWicklow1 · 29-07-2022 4:27pm

Update (in bold)...

Area: West Wicklow. Specifically the lane I live on. Blessington DA.

September 2020: One man and an Actavo/NBI van doing a survey.

December 2020: One man taking pictures of poles etc.

26th March 2021: Contractors cutting hedges and trees.

30th August 2021: A crew arrived and strung fiber between the poles.

During the week of 11th Oct 2021 to 15th Oct 2021, a crew arrived and installed a lot of DPs (much more than I expected).

~~Anticipated availability: October 2021 - December 2021.~~

~~Anticipated availability: January 2022 - April 2022.~~

Anticipated date for connection: April 2022 - June 2022

28th December 2021: My EirCode has moved to "Available for pre-order" in the last few days.

28th January 2022: Pre-ordered with Sky. 500Mbps €35.00 pm for 12 months, no installation fee. Install date 7th July 2022.

1st July 2022: My EirCode has moved to "Ready to Connect". - That's 6 months in "Pre Order"!!

8th July 2022: Received an install date from KN Circet of 26th July 2022.

26th July 2022: One man from KN Circet arrived on install day to do a survey (my words) and declared that duct was blocked, nothing would happen today and KN would be in touch at a later date after duct is unblocked. To be honest, it's what I expected so no big surprise.

29th July 2022: A two-man KN Circet crew arrived today. I welcomed them and asked if they'd mind a spectator. I have to say they were extraordinarily pleasant, informative and focused on what they had to do. They cleared the duct from the pole, under the road to the first manhole. Then ran rope through the remaining duct which includes another three manholes up along the road and declared it all good to go for the installation crew.

National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

Comments