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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    These are legally enforceable limits enacted into law. These are not 'targets'.

    Ill repeat, if people say it will never happen, why are farmers upset?

    Cant have it both way lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Probably because some of them are going to be hit with punitive change for NO gain and missed targets.

    Fodder for political feel goods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yeah that was basically it. The rural TDs wanted a lower emissions level number, the Greens a higher one. It's just a small step along what will probably be a very long road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So you won't answer the question because you

    a) don't have an opinion (so why are you here?)

    b) you are a climate change denier (probably this one)

    c) you are waiting to see what the opposition have to say first before you jump in with two feet.


    If you are here for the 'political shenanigans' do you believe in the art of compromise?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Abolishing Carbon Tax is a worldwide policy used by far-right reactionary political groups and climate change deniers. That is the team the main opposition are playing with at the moment. Its going to be fun and games if they are to take up the reins of government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Marko, don't bother waiting for a direct reply from me after yesterdays disgraceful carry on.

    But just to appease your thirst for answers.

    I'm observing the embarrassing semantics. As for the Deal, what Deal would that be 🤔 nowhere near what is legally binding apparently, a climbdown by all essentially, a week of nothingness, a week of farce, another week of embarrassing squabbling. (actually, I enjoyed that)

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Do you believe in the art of compromise? Did you vote for the GFA as an example of a compromise?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I agree and yet I seem to recall (not you) how irrelevant some think Rural TDs are, whatever party they are in, independents too.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is irrelevant on a 'political' thread what I or you think the 'targets' should be. It's a rabbithole I know is enticing to you becuase we could argue all day about a figure and the scrutiny on the political aspect would be deflected.

    I am not a 'policy maker' and neither are you. I couldn't care less what figure you think it should be.

    *Once again your overweening need to call people names (climate change denier) is evident. Says more about you than anything else. Invective and insult is your go to 'debating' technique.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So you don't believe in compromise?

    The Greens got a lot here IMO, a lot more being in government than being on the sidelines like every other crank and malcontent out there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So some farmers are going to be hit, but you maintain this deal will achieve 'nothing'...?

    Logic and reason are not your strong suit is it?

    Can't have it both ways, Francie.

    Either this deal is worth 'nothing' and achieves 'nothing' or farmers will be hit, which means the deal will do something to reduce carbon emissions.


    And I won't even mention your hard-right and far-right climate change denier credentials here.

    The purpose to reduce carbon emissions is to stop the planet from burning up, which you deny is happening, because all this is about 'feel goods'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Greens 'got' a full 5% less than they wanted of a target that won't be reached anyway, like all the other targets, legally enforcable or not.

    Political show pony's IMO. They capitulated on a core policy, same as coalition cannon fodder before them. Ryan was floundering ina sea of platitudes and lip service in his interview this morning, the presenter's closing remaks on the whole fiasco aligning precisely with my takeaway:

    'Politically efficient but scientifically incoherent'



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It is irrelevant on a 'political' thread what I or you think the 'targets' should be. 

    So one of the biggest environmental policy changes done in the history of the state is 'irrelevant' now is it?


    I am not a 'policy maker' and neither are you.

    We are both voters, which can be happy or unhappy with the outcome.


    Let's face it, you are being deliberately dishonest here and lying by omission because you won't come off that fence of yours to state your position on the topic we are talking about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    And who will pay these fines once the legally enforced limits are not achieved? You and me! Have you seen the massive profits energy and gas companies are making??? And the ordinary people are worried about how they will heat their homes this winter and as ER mentioned this morning probably next winter as well!


    I'm not a farmer but do come from a background in farming. One of the biggest problems was the removal of quotas on dairy farms. Now alot of these farmers have big debts to service and yes this is not anyone else's fault but of course they are going to be upset. And when you hear stories of beef being imported from Brazil it would make you laugh. Flying food half way across the world surely has to have a higher carbon footprint than producing it locally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So you dont believe in compromise. Didnt you vote for the GFA? What was that?



    As an aside, if you think the Greens lost, did FG and FF win?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And the misrepresentation again. Who do you think this stuff fools Mark?

    I didn't at any point say that ' the biggest environmental policy changes done in the history of the state is 'irrelevant''

    Now please stop engaging with me if you cannot be honest about what is posted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Of course they 'won' in the narrow self interest context of what a 'win' is. They forced the Greens to capitulate on core policy and protected as much as possible their rural vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    COMPROMISE

    There's a few interpretions of the meaning of Compromise, here's one

    "an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions"eventually they reached a compromise"

    The compromise in this case seems more like......

    FARCE

    There's also a few interpretions of the meaning of Farce. This my favourite in the context of the past few days 😁

    " comic dramatic work using buffoonery and horseplay and typically including crude characterization and ludicrously improbable situations. They toured the backwoods in second-rate farces"

    Regards, Dempo 😁

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It was 'capitulation' not compromise. Etched in the face of the Greens at that presser.

    A presser to announce 'the biggest environmental policy changes done in the history of the state...' which Micheál nor Leo deigned to attend.

    Yeh, roight! 😁



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Seems very odd to me some trying to present this as a good FFGG story, I've honestly very little knowledge of the Agricultural emissions reductions debate but at a basic level of understanding for me anyway, this was no compromise, achieved little and optically looks pretty dreadful, no one happy even those "Who Compromised" IMO

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here's Brophy on Claire Byrne. Popcoirn time - waffle flavour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well if nobody is happy does that not mean everybody 'compromised'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Not really, they capitulated 🤔

    Original targets almost forgotten in this discussion.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    This from the Farmer's Journal no less, a gosh a Female TD, no less 😏


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Colm Brophy is having a mare on Radio 1.

    Keeps attacking Philip Boucher-Hayes.

    It's like listening to some of the posts on here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,417 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As Verona Murphy said to him: 'It's always somebody else's fault, you won't answer the questions'.

    Colm consolidating the waffler immpression.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,997 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    A the Buffoon Brophy, always reliable to bully his way through a panel discussion. There's history between the Two, very tetchy exchanges with Lord Pompous Hayes a few Saturdays ago on the Katie hannon show when Hayes filling in, very angry and bitter, I watched it live on RTE news channel.

    Brophy seeking revenge and failing miserably.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    But what does 'capitulate' mean in this context except 'compromise massively'? And if there was scope for both sides to that doesn't that mean there was a massive gulf between them at the outset. And so how else could you split the difference between two such widely divergent positions except by major climbdowns by both sides?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,722 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I am not misrepresenting anything as you represent yourself perfectly well.

    You refuse to tell us if the 25% figure is too high or too low

    You refuse to tell us what your own preference is

    You think this deal will achieve 'nothing'

    You think the deal is all about 'feel goods' and 'virtue signalling'

    You think some farmers will be hit by the deal, yet at the same time think its 'make believe' and will do 'nothing'

    You refuse to tell us if you believe in the Science behind Climate Change

    You are always negative when it comes to any policy when it comes to Climate

    Your own words give you away Francie as a reactionary far-right climate change denier who listens to Tucker and his pals on Fox News.

    You can of course clarify if you think Climate Change is real and that we need to reduce emissions as per the Climate Action Plan of 2030



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