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RTÉ journo given 15months for sexually assaulting woman as she slept

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    What he admitted to doing was sexual assault. I think what you are suggesting is he didn't think it was sexual assault.

    Ignorance is not a defence.

    'I thought the legal age of consent was 14', nope you are going to trial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Do you not think he sexually assaulted her, Walshb? Do you think lying on top of a sleeping woman and groping her breasts isn't sexual assault? Do you think it's OK to pinch the bottom of strangers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Well, at least you are grasping clearly where I am coming from

    To my knowledge, he did not admit to sexually assaulting the woman. He said what he did. This resulted in a sexual assault charge being brought against him. Pleading not guilty is what I would have done. It's clear that the chap did not at all think what he did was worthy of a sexual assault charge, conviction and jail sentence. So why on earth plead guilty....



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    He said what he did and what he did, according to his own description of what he did, is classed as a sexual assault! Do you not think that what he did was a sexual assault?



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Not ok to grope sleeping men or women, or pinch peoples bottoms. Nobody has said otherwise

    Now, does every case here of this happening need to go to court and the man/woman jailed for it? This is the common sense that is sorely missing.

    So, you mentioned bottom pinching: Is anyone really suggesting that a man who admits to pinching a bottom, resulting in a charge of sexual assault against him, should admit/agree to sexual assault and plead guilty to the charge?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Exactly, he thought that this was not at all worthy of going to court to be a convicted man of the charge of sexual assault. A quite serous charge, and a jail sentence. Hence he pleaded not guilty. Said what he did at that moment, but never believing that he was sexually assaulting her.

    The term sexually assault is not just black and white ALL the time. We are humans, not robots.

    You innocently pat someone's bottom and technically you can be charged with sexual assault. This is the dilution we're talking about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    I'll ask you again, do you not think that lying on top of a sleeping woman and groping her breasts is sexual assault? Yes or no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles



    Nail on the head, and that is the exact reason he is looking at the loss of his liberty.

    Again ignorance is not a defence. Now we can forgive him for being ignorant at the time of interview if he not hire counsel, but once he did, nope. Unless they were beyond incompetent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,808 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    He admitted to it, didn't plead guilty but definitely when interviewed said it happened how she said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Technically-legally it is/can be, if no consent was given to do it......in this case, no consent was given. She didn't say to him, "when I am sleep, pleaase initiate intimacy." So no consent given

    Nobody has said what he did is not sexual assault. But there needs to be factors considered for these instances/examples.

    Bottom pinching can be seen as sexual assault. No man/woman will plead guilty in a court to sexual assault because he pinched a bottom, unless he is dumb.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭raclle


    Of course it is but nobody's denying that fact and didn't he only admit to sexual assault after the verdict?



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, I am not arguing that he said what he did.

    Admitted to sexual assault? So, for that to be true, can you verify that when the charge of sexual assault was put to him, he admitted that this charge was correct and that he admitted to sexual assault? I don't think this is what happened.

    He said what he did, and from this was charged with sexual assault.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am unaware that he ever officially admitted to sexual assault. He said he accepted the jury's verdict. But people say that; doesn't mean they agree with the charge levied against them. It can be said due to showing respect for the justice system and its operations.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Whataboutery. This man didn't just pinch someone's bottom, so can we stop comparing it to that?

    What he did was much more serious than that - he put himself in a position of physical power over a sleeping woman and groped her, and somehow you and others seem to believe that constitutes a minor assault on some imagined scale you have of levels of sexual assault in your own mind.

    What happened was not at all minor, not from the pov of the victim, and the charge was warranted, or it would not have been made by the DPD.

    His legal representation should have advised him prior to entering his plea that he was guilty of a sexual assault, and pleading not guilty just because he thought what happened wasn't serious enough to warrant the charge, was a fool's game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    If someone commits sexual assault, describes that sexual assault but pleads not guilty, they very likely are going to face a custodial sentence. Because they are essentially saying that they don't care what the law is, they don't care about how their actions affect the person they commit them on, no big deal nothing to see here, they don't believe what they did should be classed as an assault and that is all that matters. And that is what you are saying, too. You can't touch people sexually without their consent. The same way you can't punch, slap, kick or pull people's hair. People have a right to all aspects of their bodily integrity and that includes being touched, against their will, in a sexual way. These are crimes. If you go to court and describe committing a crime and then plead not guilty to that crime you are essentially sticking two fingers up at the law. No Judge should take kindly to that and a lesson learned in the klink is well deserved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Her victim impact statement reads like a press release by the National Women'sCouncil,her motives were probably deeply political

    Post edited by Mad_maxx on


  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    We all know he didn't pinch a bottom. The debate and discussion was around pleading guilty or not guilty for him on the sexual assault charge

    Hence why it was brought up that patting/pinching a bottom can see you charged with the crime of sexual assault: Do you think it crazy that any man/woman would plead not guilty to the charge of sexual assault here, even if they admitted that they did pinch/pat?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    But he described committing a sexual assault. "Yes , Your Honour, I did that thing that's against the law. No You Honour, not guilty "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    You're not shy about classifying others as scumbags etc so sauce for the goose

    You're an uber WOKE over eager white Knight, the kind who has a victorian attitude to women in sofar as you view them as delicate flowers who are always at risk of victimisation but never themselves capable of malice

    You'll learn eventually that life and humans are flawed and the morality of a gender studies professor isn't practical in real life



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,388 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Yeah , it's sooooo impractical to make it illegal to sexually touch women in their sleep. We are just a bunch of malicious b1ches to expect our bodily integrity to be respected and for those who don't to be punished.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whether a charge should be prosecuted or not is for the Director of Public Prosecutions to decide, which they do on a case-by-case basis.

    In the circumstances of this case, yes, i think it was crazy that this man pleaded not guilty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Ah sore foot off. I have no doubt in my mind who the scumbags are on this thread and who arent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭raclle


    What he did was much more serious than that - he put himself in a position of physical power over a sleeping woman and groped her, and somehow you and others seem to believe that constitutes a minor assault on some imagined scale you have of levels of sexual assault in your own mind.

    You even said yourself his sentence was harsh for crying out loud. Look who's moving the goalposts now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What I actually said, was that the custodial sentence was harsh considering he co-operated fully with the investigation.

    I never said I thought this was a minor assault, in fact I don't think it was minor at all. I think what he did was quite serious.

    Clearly the Gardai who did the investigation and the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions decided it was serious enough to warrant a prosecution.

    Maybe if you have any further queries on what constitutes a "minor" sexual assault, you should take it up with the Gardai and the DPP.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    it’s DPP

    DPD is them guys who deliver your online shopping 😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 56,256 ✭✭✭✭walshb



    the act was on the lower level

    Quite serious? No way.

    Quite serious would involve violence, threats, and a lot more than a kiss/fondle on a person that you were already consensually intimate with that evening.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    “You’re wrong”

    It was his defence who said it was on the lower end, not the judge.

    The judge said his probation report indicated that he accepted the verdict and not the import of the verdict. His remorse appeared to relate to the victim's sense of hurt and upset because of her perception of what happened.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/0726/1312299-courts-sentence/



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Quite serious would involve violence? Id have thought that would have been "serious"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You still don't seem to understand that consent from earlier on in the evening doesn't carry over.

    Whatever she consented to earlier in the evening has no bearing here. Someone who is sleeping cannot consent.

    How many times does that need to be repeated, before it actually sinks in?

    I don't know what scale you're using, but I believe you referred to what he did as a "2 or a 3" on a scale where a "1" was pinching someone's bottom.

    If by comparison, you think a man putting himself in a position of physical power over a sleeping woman and groping her is only one step up from that, I'd hate to imagine what you think needs to happen to warrant a 10.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭anglesorangles


    Well hes described sexual assault with violence as quite serious. So he is defo consistent if nothing else.



This discussion has been closed.
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