General British politics discussion thread

Thats a pity about not getting past the first paragraph because if you ignore the Corbynist stuff and the point about Tarry, there are actually some good points like -

Keir Starmer’s game isn’t to inspire with hope and a grand vision, but to play a glorified game of whack-a-mole with every possible Tory attack line. He promises, for example, “no magic money tree economics”, no nationalisation of public services, that Labour won’t talk to the SNP or deal with Liberal Democrats. And the unions must be held at arm’s length so as not to frighten the horses of the right or some fictional middle England swing voter. When really, even the more conservative voters he hopes to reach are concerned about wages and the cost of living.

What would work, or at least stand a chance, is to learn the lessons of Joe Biden in the US and Olaf Scholz in Germany, who both embraced the left of their parties and at least enjoyed the electoral spoils. What also works is the way Andy Burnham has used the platform of mayor in Greater Manchester to address the cost of living crisis via ownership and control of the buses and therefore lower fares. Burnham has also made democracy and proportional representation a first-order issue by saying that whatever we want, we won’t get it until we change the political system. Or the way that Mark Drakeford, the Labour leader of Wales, has put ideas such as a universal basic income on the map.

What of these?

It's gas. You would tear into anyone else using stupid buzz words but you throw round Corbynista and Corbynite like it's the Daily Mail.

Whats grown up or sensible about it? What does it add to discussions?

At best it's lazy short hand for any one with socialist ideas used by right wing media and Twitter fbpe heavyweights like Femi (yes I am taking the pīss), or for the less charitable view it's an attempt at a slur, particularly when you are so vocal in your hatred for Corbyn.

Im not offended, I just think it's lazy, and quite childish and I also don't think Blairite was ever hijacked by Mail/Express/Telegraph etc. like Corbynite or (particularly Corbynista) ever was.

Indeed, but I think has already been mentioned Labour has had factionalism since the year dot. As far back as Bevan and Gaitskell or more recent history when, if it wasn't the left bogeyman Militant for Kinnock or Corbyn and Momentum for Starmer/Evans et al., it was centre left against other centre left like Blair and Brown.

Who are toxic Corbynites??

To be honest labelling people you disagree with does nothing to further any argument or discussion.

But back to Starmer. It is a problem , when the leader of the Labour party , founded for the most part by union activists , sacks a minister for supporting workers rights by standing in an official picket. And it can be spun any way they want, but that is why he was sacked.

Starmer can take a position by supporting workers rights to strike and to fight for their livelihood . In sacking a minister for standing with the striking workers he is aligning with the employers and by extension the Tory government.At the moment, while he chases after the Tory voter he is very much in danger of losing the left vote.

Not a particular fan of Owen Jones, but he's suggesting people do the same thing as lots of people have lauded Steve Bray for, harangue and call out politicians. They can't have their cake and eat it.

Steve Bray does this to politicians, all the time, there are plenty of other politicians other than Starmer.

There's the not particularly likeable Jenkyns providing evidence

Here's the Guardian:

"For five years the top-hatted maverick has roamed Westminster, shouting at leave-supporting politicians, heckling interviews"

No difference between what Jones has suggested, and what Bray does to politicians.

Mine was a generic statement, I don't think it is helpful to label people. You idea of what a Corbynite is might be different to someone else. I would rather discuss the politics.

There is no fake news in my post. if you think there is then report my post.