Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I didn’t know the CW Games were happening until Dorries made her gaff.

Have given up watching BBC and UK channels is probably the reason.

Happened by osmosis rather than any conscious decision over the last few years. Only realised how little I watch a while ago. As somebody interested in a wide range of sports, I was rather shocked to not know the games were on.

It's not news anywhere until tonight's opening ceremony! I mean, I'm sure there are articles popping up, but it's not even getting as much coverage as even The Hundred, of which I've seen more ads for! Imagine, the only thing I came across all week was about Canadian athletes not turning up.

Lack of knowledge of what exactly?

If it makes you feel better to think that just under 50% of the population of the Commonwealth Nations will be tuned in, then more power to you.

But it's fanciful. I guess it'll be covered on news bulletins as wall to wall :sar: as Glasgow, Gold Coast and Delhi were. Will help if the lavs don't work I guess. 🤷

Anyway, enjoy the Games. If it was on in the back garden I wouldn't watch it.

Britain has moved on from empire?

Are you having a laugh?

I have to say, I do love it when we get given history lessons from subjects of the Mainland. It's almost like they seem to think our knowledge of our own history is as pockmarked as theirs.

I wouldn't bother. It's clear from all this waffle about "willing and profitable participation" in empire that he is just another one of these posters who will just say anything.

Call it whatever WUM, troll, bad faith poster. Bottom line is you wont be getting intelligent or rational conversation.

Point of order, Elizabeth Windsor isn't their head of State. Both are republics.

Ireland withdrew/got removed in 48 (although we'd long ceased being an active participant) when we declared ourselves a republic, as this was against the rules at the time. You had to have the monarch as head of state. This rule got removed a few years later when India was in the process of becoming a republic, as the Commonwealth didn't want to lose such an important member (a jewel in the crown you might say).

Since then most members have declared themselves republics (all/most of the African ones anyway) and very few have the Queen as Head of State now.

Interestingly some countries like Gabon & Rwanda who joined recently were never colonised by the Empire, so clearly they saw some merit in being part of it. And some who left have rejoined.

I don't understand why the commonwealth countries stay. Does it give them priority in anything worldwide? Can people from, say, St. Kitts and Nevis migrate freely to the UK, get public assistance and jobs? Why do I think I already know the answer to that is no. Is there other economic benefits or subsidies going on? Again, I doubt it's significant enough if the likes of Barbados are leaving. If the bigger economies like Australia would go, it'd probably snowball.

Plus, there's already the Olympics. That's enough international sporting teams to support I'd think. Whole thing is symbolic and looks like just places for the Royals to go on attractive photo shoots. Might just add a few more flower shows in the UK for all it benefits anyone.

No issue accepting the history of this island Frazer. I physically work to perseve aspects of it, like planter castles, British built heritage. No airbrushing here.

I fully accept there were those who partook in colonisation and imperialism too and that there are those who regret our independence.

I have also noticed, as stated that British outreach is fading for me, I genuinely didn't know these games were on until the DOrries gaff.

I fancy it is the same for many in Ireland. You cannot pursue a policy of isolationism and then be surprised when nobody notices something you are doing from outside.

We're an observer to the OIF

Cheers, I genuinely didn't know about there was a FR equivalent of the Commonwealth Games - every days a school day around here!

I just think, for whatever reason possibly historic, we make a bigger deal out of Commonwealth membership than it deserves. That because we left there is something wrong with the countries who are still in it, and we are waiting for the time to come when they see the light like we did and decide to leave.

Ironically, having typed the above sentence, I see similarities to the UK attitude to the EU. They thought once they left that logically other countries would also leave.

Ireland is kinda unusual though as we were split with one part very much still a member of the empire so Commonwealth membership is wrapped up in Unionism (both the NI type and the D4 type). It is all a bit overblown with people on both sides and I've been accused of being some sort of IRA neanderthal because I would rather we didn't join (get the same sht because I still like to see England lose the soccer).

Also in peoples minds it is linked to John Bruton waffling on which isn't great for the cause either 😁

One wonders what condition the Commonwealth would be in had the Queen passed away around 20 years ago - I suspect her remaining on the throne for 70 years has been a big factor in it surviving.

Agreed. You can see in places like Canada and Australia that there is a great deal of affection for the monarch among a lot of the population. Without her, I can see a lot of the incentive to stay dying out.

Well there weren't a lot of other job opportunities in Ireland (except in the north-east, if you were the right religion) but we all know why that was.

I see there is some misunderstanding on what the Commonwealth is and I wasn't up to date with some of the information either and I wonder if there are some merit to joining it. There are no real legal obligations and you do not have to accept the Queen as head of State and the meetings of the Heads of State is a good opportunity to meet with other leaders. I doubt that is a bad thing.

You cannot run from your history and there are countries within the Commonwealth that has had just as hostile history with the UK as Ireland as the Empire was not a fun club at the time.

When ER II dies the UK itself is reasonably likely to fall apart, nevermind the Commonwealth.

You can't run from your history, but equally you can't ignore it and its effects.

The effect on us psychologically as a nation rejoining would be massive. It would cause massive political ructions. Absolutely insane prospect.

Aligning yourself with Frank Feighan, John Bruton, Charlie Flanagan and Conor Cruise-O'Brien is not something one should ever want to do.

The US won't even allow Puerto Rico or Washington, DC to become states. The UK? rofl

Sooner see Cuba as a State than the UK. Imagine the hilarity if that happened.

I wouldn't agree. There won't be a split, that's just noise. Last time that was tried it got really ugly and there was, good or bad, a real reason for it (and against it.) Not so much this time, it's just nuclear-class whining is all. The States are infinitely better off together.

Though, Texas could secede, and the remaining states build a nice wall around it and split up families trying to cross over. Works for me. That lone star on its flag really is a review ranking.

(I think we've diverged from Brexit enough now.)