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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    By not building a LNG terminal we're doing our bit by not competing with European countries on the LNG marketplace



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,544 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,544 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    A gw of solar? I'm not sure what a gw is but if you are referring to a GW, that's great. What do we do the rest of the time. 1 GW is less than 20% of the current peak electricity use and absolutely unusable at the winter peak and not exactly setting the world alight during summer either. Just look at the Northern Ireland solar output. There's a lot of cloudy summer days on this fair island and Bifacial panels or global warming won't improve that substantially.

    I suppose the only good thing about solar is that it'll deflect from the land waste after the Greens force all of our farm animals into extinction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Following from the RESS 2 auction Ireland should have 2.5GW of installed dolar capacity (not including domestic installations) by 2030. Plus another 5GW of Offshore wind



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,348 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Achieving a workable majority would have required the support of most of the independents:

    Cathal Berry Seán Canney Michael Collins Catherine Connolly Michael Fitzmaurice Peter Fitzpatrick Noel Grealish Marian Harkin Danny Healy-Rae Michael Healy-Rae Michael Lowry Mattie McGrath Michael McNamara Verona Murphy Denis Naughten Carol Nolan Richard O'Donoghue Thomas Pringle Matt Shanahan

    Which of those would you regard as 'genuine leftists'? Do the Healy Raes harbour hitherto unsuspected anarcho-syndicalist tendencies?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,544 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    That's like saying "Following from Gate 1-3, Ireland should have had 5665MW of wind installed by 2020"!

    A lot of it is speculative, regardless of consents/planning and will never materialise, especially with current commodity prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I suppose the green party learned from their last time in power when they became the fall guy for every bad bit of news the government had to deliver. They were royally screwed over last time so are deciding to use whatever leverage they have to not be dumped on again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The solar target was recently stated as 5GW by 2030.

    Same with offshore wind, gone from 5 to 7GW.

    Longer term there is 30GW envisaged off the west coast alone and that is a tiny fraction of the potential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    You quoting the guardian does your arguments no favour btw. They were found to be taking money from extremist groups in the US . That some of those extremist groups are been backed by industrial interests is really no surprise. Which brings us to another industry

    Yeah we know the oil industry is there to make profits for its shareholders. And it has its share of ruthless businessmen and individuals. What endeavour doesnt? And regardless of what conspiracy theory you think is relevant - the fact remains that our current level of civilisation including mass transport, flight, pharmaceuticals, fertilisers. And yeah even pesticides and herbicides which have enabled more food, health care, transport and essential services than ever before. Yeah we know know the damage carbon based fuels do. We didn't "decades ago" because the science simply wasn't there to measure it a global level. Decades ago in order of concerns raised - it was pesticides, lead pollution, global cooling bizarrely enough, then acid rain, then smog and now we are dealing with climate change.

    Much of rest of the rubbish being pushed by extremists about the evil oil industry is fo Speakers Corner as far I'm concerned.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Well if you bothered to read the article linked earlier - the green party made it quite clear the only reason they couldn't threaten the same shenanigans last time was there simply wasn't enough of them.

    "ultimately if we see a serious breach in implementing [Green initiatives in the programme for government] or trying to do something different we can leave, we can bring the government down”.

    “In 2008, we didn’t have the numbers to bring it down”, but the two larger parties now need the Green Party to stay in, he said.

    It is not a threat (we) make idly..."

    But don't worry because the number one fan of the gp on here  has explained that all this was simply porkies for tactical purposes. 

    Whats true is that the green party are certainly their own worst enemy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The green party is doing what every party should be doing - making climate change and biodiversity loss our top priority. There really is no other viable alternative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭jj880


    You are trying to say what will happen due to Green policy is not what the Green Party want. They don't care about the consequences. They are ruining this country to line their pockets. This emotional nonsense about "surely you don't mean to say the Greens are intentionally doing what they are doing" is laughable. Why wouldn't the money to buy up farm land come from China? We already have vulture funds buying up property with sweetheart rent deals from the state. In this day and age expecting a politician to do what's in the best interests of the people is completely ridiculous. They are robbing us all with a thin layer of media spin to try to justify it. In fact they aren't even trying that hard to hide it really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Congratulations.

    I thought the level of delusion being used attempting to defend the level of Irish Green Party insanity could not go any higher, but with that post you managed to bring it to a whole new level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Looks like you did a Gap analysis on the Gap analysis and found a major gap.

    A Gap analysis is nothing more than another term for a SWOT analysis where anyone doing one will big up what the see as the strengths and opportunities and attempt to ignore and dumb down the weaknesses and threats hoping nobody notices the major gaps in their proposal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    LNG has very high emission at all stages of production. By not building a LNG terminal we are not participating in one of the most polluting supply chains on the planet.

    Piped natural gas is sort of a viable transition fuel where LNG is not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    I agree that retrofitting is good and replacing public transport with something cleaner is also but at what cost? EVs just transfer 2/3 of the problem somewhere else in a world where more and more vehicles are produced. Take it personally? My fuel bills have more than doubled which I know is not all due to carbon tax but why at a time like this should we be paying it?

    I’ve been listening to the predictions of climate change for four decades now during which GG has increased worldwide and will continue to do so yet none of their catastrophic predictions have come true as they try to spin weather anomalies as climate change. The same people fly first class around the world with a carbon footprint so large that it almost obscures their egos.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    The green party are pushing their own particular green ideology over and above that of anyone else and that includes ignoring EU limits for emissions, biodiversity and energy security for the period of transition to renewable energy generation and instead have come up with their own bizarre solutions.

    It's certainly not in the countries interests for one group to make it that people will not be able to heat their homes or put food on their table. Tbh if the current lot of clueless politicians (for that is what they are) got their way they'd effectively shut the country down and turn it over to the wolves

    At the end of the day they are small single interest party that have neither the experience or knowledge or apparently the willingness to listen to anyone but themselves. The sooner they get the boot the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Absolute nonsense.

    Ireland destroying its agricultural sector, loading taxes under the more attractive term of "incentives" on an already struggling public, and Ryan and his bunch of ideological loons pontificating in the press will do absolutely zero to address the policies or emissions outputs of countries that are doing far more damage than we ever could.

    This narrative of panicky hysteria is just like we saw over the last 2 years in this country with Covid. Massively overblown theatrics for what was essentially a mild dose of the sniffles for the vast majority of people who caught it - but it did have many of the same elements : mass media coverage of only the "approved" narrative, expectations that the majority must sacrifice for the "greater good", a government increasingly out of touch with the mood on the ground, etc..

    All this is now is the latest populist crusade (whatever happened to Saint Greta anyway? I would have expected her to be front and centre lecturing the world's leaders again?)

    I have a feeling though that once the energy shortages start to bite in the colder months ahead, and the impending global recession starts to make its effects felt in parallel, all this pandering to a bunch that only 3% (of those actually asked) actually support will rapidly fall away in the face of far more immediate and significant problems.

    Green policy is something that the wealthy and entitled folk use to make themselves feel better about their own excesses, but that's about all it is.

    Post edited by _Kaiser_ on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    By not building the infastrructure for natural gas and or LNG (a fuel necessary for period of transition to renewable energy generation) the greens are burying their head in the sand, putting their fingers in their ears all the while the sing la la la la

    These are same greens who have deliberately stonewalled the use of our own untapped natural gas reserves which would help to reduce our dependence on importing gas whether thats natural gas or LNG.

    As for importing gas from the UK - that gas comes from both LNG and natural gas sources. The fact that you and the greens here are ignoring our own Energy Regulator and the EU recommendations on security of natural gas supply shows what a crock of crap the gp policies really are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Installed capacity, or indeed rolling output capacity where renewables are concerned, is not worth the amount of paper it takes to write the words on.

    We have close to 5,000MW of renewable installed capacity. Our peak time demand is around 6,000MW and there have been posts here showing that even this month out of that renewable installed capacity there have been days that all it provided from that close to 5,000MW was 360MW.

    If that was the level anyone was getting from a diesel or petrol powered generator it would be scrapped.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    Sounds like we are in agreement then, apart from how I presented my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Neither "is sort of a viable transitional fuel" regardless of what you again have come up with in your own head. Both along with nuclear are recognised by the E.U. as transitional fuels.

    Seeing as your major concern is planetary polluting supply chains, perhaps you would care to share how culling 2 million cattle here will lessen the pollutants from a supply chain where just one other country is increasing their cattle numbers by 24 million?

    I won`t hold my breath waiting for your reply to that no more than I have been to any other of your own made up "facts" you have been questioned on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    We could leave the EU and do our own thing. I'm not sure who'll pay the farmer's subsidies though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    1 Where is the evidence for your claim that the. guardian took money from extremists.

    There is no conspiracy theory’s about big fossil fuel cause everything they’ve done has been established an can be summarised by this clip,

    3 civilisation has gained from burning fossil fuels however the Stone Age didn't end for the lack of stone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    From all these little cartoon comics you post they remind me of an episode of The Simpsons I saw where Lisa, I think her name is, commented on Elon Musk that for a man so opposed to fossil fueled car he sure loved rockets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You ignored what I said . Piped gas is a transition fuel, LNG isn't. I accept the need to continue to use piped gas for backup generation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Farmers might not be as adverse to that as you may believe.

    Those subsidies are keeping the price of food low for consumers as well,so an increase in prices would suit farmers, world demand for both meat and dairy produce worldwide are increasing and according to the OECD/FAO report predicted to continue doing so and milk prices are up as far as I know.

    It would probably lead to much more intensive farming methods,and much lower environmental standards but not with being in the E.U. neither would be a problem. Not even for the E.U. as they are importing beef where farming methods and environmental standards are not a problem for them presently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    You ignored what was explained. Piped gas from the UK is sourced from both LNG imports and natural gas. So if we use UK gas we dont have a choice whether its comes from fracked sources or otherwise. And yes the EU have deemed both natural gas and LNG as transition fuels. Btw not all LNG is from fracked sources. You do know that right?

    LNG stands for Liquidified Natural Gas. In order to meet the world’s demand for gas, natural gas needs to be transported from where it’s produced to where it’s going to be consumed. LNG is created by cooling natural gas to -160ºC, creating a clear, colourless and non-toxic liquid, 600 times smaller than natural gas. The biggest exporter of LNG around the world is Qatar, which has huge supplies of natural gas of its coastline. The biggest exporter of fracked natural gas is the US.

    So do you accept that we need to reduce our reliance on imported natural gas by using our own untapped reserves. If not, why not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Ramasun


    One of the worst things about the EU is farm subsidies. Beef and processed Dairy products should be too expensive for most people. If people had to pay the true cost there'd be less demand and our emissions target would solve itself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    LNG uses around 15% of its embodied energy to compress which regardless of its source it is less efficient than piped gas. The majority of the gas coming from the UK is coming directly from the North sea gas fields.

    Ireland has no viable domestic sources of gas. Corrib was marginal and it took the government to give it away for anyone to develop it. The government has been trying to get people to develop its reserves for 30 years with no takers but shell in corrib.



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