Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

You can't run from your history, but equally you can't ignore it and its effects.

The effect on us psychologically as a nation rejoining would be massive. It would cause massive political ructions. Absolutely insane prospect.

Aligning yourself with Frank Feighan, John Bruton, Charlie Flanagan and Conor Cruise-O'Brien is not something one should ever want to do.

The US won't even allow Puerto Rico or Washington, DC to become states. The UK? rofl

Sooner see Cuba as a State than the UK. Imagine the hilarity if that happened.

I wouldn't agree. There won't be a split, that's just noise. Last time that was tried it got really ugly and there was, good or bad, a real reason for it (and against it.) Not so much this time, it's just nuclear-class whining is all. The States are infinitely better off together.

Though, Texas could secede, and the remaining states build a nice wall around it and split up families trying to cross over. Works for me. That lone star on its flag really is a review ranking.

(I think we've diverged from Brexit enough now.)

But, what political benefits are there being part of a political union run by the UK? They've left the EU. Their economy is shrinking, and they're lurching towards an isolationist government model. FFS they're shipping Ukrainian refugees to Rwanda or at least threatening to do so.

It's domestically become much more authoritarian too (anti-protest bills?) So, join a political union with a defunct world power that's getting more like North Korea?

Sorry, I don't see any political benefit. But I could be missing something, please enlighten. Is it better for Antigua to be in the commonwealth, vs. not, for example? Howabout Australia and New Zealand?

There might have been a debate to be had about it in 2012 after ERII's well received visit to Ireland. That was probably the highest point of Anglo-Irish relations but it has deteriorated very badly since.

I cannot imagine Ireland, as it is currently constituted, ever joining the Commonwealth after what has gone on in the last 6 years. Pritti Patel threatening to weaponise food supply was a particular low point, even more so now we see it happening in Ukraine.

It will take a long time to rebuild trust regardless of which political party is in office.

Just got to wondering recently, how so many of those Brexiteers who po-facedly told us that the EU was run by fundamentally undemocratic institutions such as the Commission and the Council, should now find themselves in that most democratic and accountable institutions The House of Lords!!

Among those now ennobled, despite being so vociferous about the need to be able to "Hire and Fire one's own lawmakers" are:

Daniel Hannan, now Baron Hannan of Kingsclere. Was terrible fond, despite being a Tory, of Tony Benn and his various pronouncements about the undemocratic nature of the EU. Well, perhaps Benn's most famous declaration is that a democracy is an organisation, or country, whose leaders can provide adequate answers to the questions: What power have you got? How did you get it? In whose interest is it exercised? To whom are ou accountable? and, most importantly How do we get rid of you?

Well how do we get rid of you from the house of Lords, Danny Boy? Apart from waiting for you to die? Which, assuming you live to be about 80, standard for a white British male, could be in about 30 years time? You only have to wait five years to get a new Euro Commission.

Kate Hoey, now Baroness Hoey of Lylehill and Rathlin in the County of Antrim, is a mad-as-a-box-of-frogs former Labour Party sports minister. Is outraged by the presence of the NI Protocol, because scratch at her red exterior and you will find deep orange just beneath the surface, and is convinced in her own silly feather head that Ireland is just itching to come out of the EU and climb back into bed with Britain. Yeah, cause that worked SO well in the past.

Baron Botham of Ravensworth in the County of North Yorkshire, formerly the Big Butch Beefy Bird-Bonking Bollock-Brained Ball Basher in chief Ian Botham. Not noted for his political stances on many issues apart from declining to tour South Africa as part of a rebel tour but most vociferous as a supporter of Brexit. Also noted for charity walks and being banned for a time as a player for puffing the odd bit of wacky baccy. Not usually enough to get somebody elevated to the peerage, but Brexit means Brexit and the baubles had to be given out to those who shouted loudest. His only political appointment was as a Trade Envoy to Australia (because, like, he's SO popular there) by Boris Johnson.

Claire Fox, now Baroness Fox of Buckley. Made the mighty leap, although actually in retrospect seems to be a very short hop, from the Revolutionary Communist Party to the Brexit Party. Puts her in the same political grouping as the likes of Brendan O'Neill who, like the baroness, often gets invited as a talking head on radio and TV programs, including on occasion RTE. Both Plastic Paddies, don't y'know. Fervently anti EU and pro "working class" she and her other former fellow travellers in the now defunct RCP evoke striking memories of how close some variants of hard-line socialism are to Fascism and Nazism. Browse through their rantings on spiked online to get a feel for how these (former?) Trotskyists now embrace hard-line nationalism. Which is kind of ironic given Trotsky's own essential internationalist outlook.

Helena Morrissey, now Baroness Morissey of Chapel Green in the Royal County of Berkshire. Perhaps not as high profile as the other but had a successful career in the City and was known as a champion of promoting gender equality in the upper reaches of company management. Also lauded as a Super Mom because she combines a successful career with mothering nine children. (In practice, the lion's share of parenting was done by her husband, an Irishman of course, to whom to give her her due she always acknowledged when breathless, usually female, interviewers ask "How do you do it?" "I don't, he does") A London City executive prepared to promote Brexit was atypical, to say the least, so she was a bit of a darling of the right-wing press. Was appointed a Foreign Office Adviser but got pushed out in the last days of Boris' reign for suggesting he should go. Now comfortably ensconced on the Red Benches.

These are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more "arch democrats" out there who managed to swallow their distaste for non-elected institutions with limited terms of office and cuddle up to the job for life that is an ennoblement. Probably justifying it to themselves by saying "Hey it could have been a hereditary peerage, but we got rid of those about 20 years ago. You know? Just in time for the 21st century. Modernisation knows no boundaries!"

It's absolutely not.

"Answering the question of what the benefits are with "What's the harm?" isn't constructive."

I trust you'll be asking all the anti-CW people to list all the specific/non-speculative downsides of membership in a constructive manner then?

Because otherwise it just appears one side of the debate has to display the proof.

FFS, if you're going to use the Irish name for Ireland at least get it right. It is a real bugbear of mine hearing Brexity types thinking they're ingratiating themselves by attempting to use the Irish name but getting it as wrong as Truss's tea-sock.