Enjoyment vs Improvement

Mantis Toboggan · 20-07-2022 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362881#Comment_119362881

All depends on what course you're playing, our place is narrow with a good few short par 4's. I'm usually very consistent with my 5 iron and if it leaves me a 9 iron or less into any hole then I'll take that over driver.

When I look back over my rounds on the garmin app the holes which I take an iron off the tee I score better, on average.

Whiplash85 · 20-07-2022 4:01pm

Becoming increasingly frustrated with my game of late. I am not seeing much improvement. The only crumbs of comfort I can take from it is that I have cut out missing as many 3 or 4 feet putts. 3 putt avoidance is generally good now. My chipping used to be brutal but now I have developed a stock shot that can take care of most chips that dont require hitting over a bunker.

But I have played very hard courses recently with a lot of blind shots in Carne and the Cashen course in Ballybunion. In the 5 hours it took to get around these courses it must have taken an hour looking for golf balls.

The depressing thing is shot dispersion. My miss is right and left. Blocking to the right and hooking to the left. In some occasions the drive can be really good and I can score when I get the drive away. I also find if I try and play conservatively to baby driver out there or hit a 5 iron I can mess up just as prolifically.

My problem is either grip or not enough shoulder turn/pivot or both? The fact that I am always tweaking and changing doesn’t help matters. It probably does get to a stage where you eventually can grow sick of it or start to resent the game especially given how much money you can spend on the game.

Russman · 21-07-2022 9:04am

Some fascinating points made here. I think one of the things we all need to be wary of is being realistic in our expectations. Op, if you're only playing a couple of times a month and the odd practice session, it's tricky to improve. If by "improve" we mean score better, then short game is where its at in terms of immediate results. IMO getting a "fairway finder" with the driver would be next I think. Not having to chip out sideways in a round saves a huge amount of shots.

With regard to intentionally leaving yourself partial wedges in order to practice them, I can see the logic, but really, you'll have, what, maybe 6 of them in a round ? - its nowhere near enough for meaningful practice at different distances. To paraphrase and old article on Golfwrx maybe 10 years ago, "......the worst tour player is better than your average scratch player by a margin so wide it almost can't be measured....", and the worst players on the PGA Tour from last season averaged 25 feet and 29 feet in proximity to the hole from 100-125yds and 125-150yds respectively. That's from fairway, from the rough the figures were 44 feet and 52 feet. For us club golfers to be trying to dial in wedges and consistently being able to hit 110yds Vs 120yds etc, its too much of an ask IMO. Middle of the green with every wedge shot would probably be closer than those numbers. That's not to say we can't strive to improve of course.

blue note · 21-07-2022 11:05am

I don't agree that I'm not playing enough to improve on those weak parts of my game. And the evidence is that they have improved. My problem with those shots wasn't that I was disappointed to leave myself long putts, it was that I was misconnecting with them. I'd aim for the middle of the green and end up going long by 50m or short by a similar distance. I was averaging over 4 shots to get down from 100m. Whereas from 150m I'd have been less than that. I was happy enough that I knew how to hit them properly (within reason for my level) so persisted in hitting them. In fairness, in Corballis they're completely unavoidable. You have two of them from a tee most days. And unless you want to make a layup very tricky, you'll have another 3 at least. But I remember two particular days where they absolutely ruined my card. One in Baltray where I played great except for these. I don't remember a better day for driving and we were from the forward tees so I left myself one of them on most par 4s. I was +18 that day and I attributed 12 shots to mishitting those non-full swings - generally missing the green and landing myself in serious trouble. And a similar day in the Gold Coast. The only par 4 I hit a full swing on for my approach was 17 and I flew a wedge over the green. It was pretty much a drive and pitch and putt day except with infinitely bigger greens and I was about +22. I hardly hit one properly either day.

Now they're not too bad. I'll still catch a few fat or thin, but wouldn't expect it standing over the ball. So plugging away at it has certainly worked.

Russman · 21-07-2022 12:08pm

Ahh right, I get ya now, I took it to mean you were misjudging them as opposed to flat out mis-striking them.

blue note · 21-07-2022 12:12pm

Exactly. I was finding trouble that wasn't in play. Going 50m long and that sort of thing. So if I was further out it would be the equivilant of being a 9 iron away and hitting a 5 iron.

Walter Alright · 22-07-2022 10:19am

Blue Note I had the exact same problem as you up until recently.

I’m not playing golf regularly because of two young children, now I have a new born added into the mix so I never had time to go to our short game area to practice.

I decided to get a lesson working on this half shot only. It sorted my problem because now I know how to play the shot and it’s repeatable.

I’m playing golf even less than before the lesson but when I do go out I’m confident over the short shots.

Sometimes I’ll over hit them or under hit the shots but that’s me misjudging the distances wrong as opposed to poor technique. This will take improve with regular game time.

You’ll improve too very quickly when you can stand over these shots with confidence instead of worried.

Good luck with it and enjoy

billy3sheets · 22-07-2022 1:46pm

@blue note how many wedges do you carry? I carry 4 - 60, 56, 52 and 48. Full swing with these gets me 50, 70, 90, 115 yards approx. That's enough coverage for me and I don't bother much with taking anything off. I just aim at the pin, focus on hitting it properly and hitting the green. I'd back myself to get down in 2 putts from anywhere on most greens. Occasionally I'll land one close and 1 putt.

Interesting comments re driver versus other clubs off the tee. I personally find less dispersion with a 3 or 5 wood. I often take them on par 5s where there's more risk and no great reward hitting driver when your second shot is usually to get in position for your 3rd.

blue note · 23-07-2022 8:18am

4 wedges - 46, 50, 55, 60. They'll carry about 120, 105, 85 metres. I almost never hit the 60 full so I'm not really sure what it would carry.

But looking at the difference between the gap wedge and sand wedge, the length of some of the greens in corballis would be between those clubs. Or even if you're just inside it you're then risking the danger long or short if you hit it a few metres further or shorter.

I don't think we can avoid playing those half shots.

Quahog217 · 29-07-2022 5:22pm

Have a look at eh handicap list in your club, Generally the lowest guys are the longest and the highest HC are the shortest. Yes there will be outliers but this is still a fact. Its the same on tour, Luke Donald would never get to world number 1 right now if he was in his hay day because the game is more about power and distance than ever before. Closer to the green = less shots to finish the hole, its that simple.

Matt Fitzpatrick is another example, he mocked Bryson when he pit on the distance and bulked, and what has he done in the last 2 years? He has added 20-30 yards!!!! He was driving past DJ in the last major which was not possible 3 years ago. In all likelihood he would have may well have never won a major without adding the distance. Even at that level hitting 2/3/4 clubs less into greens is HUGE.

blue note · 29-07-2022 5:41pm

Ah, you can say the same about any aspect of the game really. There are outliers, but generally the best putters will be the lowest handicap guys too. And the best iron players and bunker players and chippers and pitchers and basically everything else.

The reason we talk about driving so much now is because before we had all of the stats that we now have it was dismissed as being as important as it is. "Drive for show, putt for dough" and all of that. The big cavaet with driving distance is that you have to keep it in play. If you're hitting it a long way and an outlier, I would be very surprised if you're not losing one or two per round.

OEP · 31-07-2022 7:50am

Completely agree with blue_note but also, there often isn't a big difference in distance between say mid to high single figures and scratch to low single figures. The biggest difference I see is usually from 100 yards in. I say that as a mid single figures person who hits the ball long, and often play with lower handicap guys. They'll hit the green way more from 100 yards, give themselves a lot more makeable birdie putts and tap in pars and then when they do miss the green they get up and down way more often. Their drives are generally more accurate too but not necessarily longer.

Mantis Toboggan · 31-07-2022 7:54am

OP check out the DECADE system by Scott Fawsett, he's crunched the numbers for better course management, yeah mainly aimed at better players but still useful to your average Joe.

Russman · 31-07-2022 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410420#Comment_119410420

That's very fair imo. Like you, I'm mid/high single figures, but about a decade ago was low singles figures for years. I keep all my basic stats and when i compare the "back then" and "now", its amazing how similar they are in terms of fairways hit, putts etc etc. The one number that has moved a lot is my greens hit is way lower than before, falling from around 55% average over about 5/6 seasons, to around 35% over the last few years. The only reason I can drill down to is that my misses are bigger off the tee. From playing with/against lower guys over the years, they rarely seem to have the big destructive miss in their bag. There'll be little or no difference between a 6 h/c's good shot and a 2 h/c's good shot, IMO it really does come down to what Tiger said in that documentary "how bad is your bad ?"

I think the likes of Shot Scope, Arccos etc have really shown up some surprising things, especially with regard to distance. I suppose a bit like how Trackman changed understanding of the ball flight laws ! Obviously getting it into the hole is paramount, but picking up 10/15 yards makes such a difference because its not just yards with the driver, its yards with every club. The difference between drive & 4 iron and drive and maybe 6 or 7 iron into the same hole is huge. I don't know the stats offhand but I'm fairly sure they've surprisingly shown that laying up to a "favourite yardage" is not as good as getting it up there as close to the hole as possible - we generally take fewer shots to complete the hole from closer in.

Enjoyment vs Improvement

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