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Did the lockdown policy cause the surge of hepatitis cases among children?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Yep we didnt get our son vaccinated and we are certainly not anti vaccine as he has all his childhood vaccines.

    The whole point of traditional vaccine is to stop you getting it. This is what all childhood vaccines do.

    However Covid vaccine does not do this and Covid doesn't usually have a serious effect on children, so why would you give them a vaccine that we know hardly anything about that could cause side effects?

    I can't understand it.

    The last straw for me was the push to now also give your child the flu vaccine.

    Are they for real. Are people going to get their healthy children vaccinated every year against the flu which was never done before until they are 18?

    No wonder we have this strange variant of hepatitis. Kids need to build up their immune system against common colds and flu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Walus, I can't believe those stats about the excess deaths. That's shocking, I wonder will we ever know is it due to neglect of people's health during Covid, cancers that were undiagnosed etc.

    That's before we even look at the mental health problems which are just off the scale. It's just so sad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    Seeing the excess deaths go up post pandemic is something that I actually expected to happen and kept my radar on for information related to it. My hypothesis at the beginning of lockdown(s) was that those who we protected by isolating everyone i.e. old and frail would sadly die shortly after opening the country due to natural causes anyway. The lockdowns would merely add a few months to their lives at best, I thought. In addition to that I was fairly certain that the lockdowns themselves would cause so called secondary deaths that over time would dwarf the covid deaths. This I thought would be due to lack of diagnosis and medical care as well as stress and mental health issues. I did not take the adverse effects of vaccines into account at that time though. I thought that because they would be safe enough and administered only to those who were vulnerable and really needed them, and consequently the event of death caused by the vaccine would be so rare that it would not affect in any meaningful way the excess deaths.

    What I don’t understand is that at least in some of the countries excess deaths come and go in waves, like covid. It would be natural to link them with the virus of course. However, in UK at least they looked into their numbers to discover that there are excess deaths on top of covid deaths, which would suggest there are other causes for those. Same must be true for other countries as omicron is far less dangerous and causes much fewer deaths now. If that is the case what causes those deaths? And then you have other countries, Sweden for example who have not had excess deaths to mention since Feb 2021 - the numbers are very much in line with what they would have expected -single digit fluctuations. Again the question is - why?

    The point i was making from the beginning was that the policy should be aimed at protecting lives with a long term period in mind (at least 2-3 years). I believed back in March 2020 that in terms of numbers of lives saved it should be focused not so much how well we do short term but how we do overall long term, even much beyond the pandemic. Unfortunately flattening the curve and lockdowns are not the way to achieve that if we agree that we are considering all deaths and not just covid deaths.

    There is much more questions than answers wrt this issue still and I only started researching this. It may take months before we know more. The true winner here will be a country and a government who lost the fewest of its citizens to covid as well as policies that were implemented to deal with over at least 5 year period (possibly 10 years) since the start of the pandemic.

    Post edited by walus on

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I only mention it because someone else ( 2 posts above mine !) brought up the fact that regular immunisations had dropped off and that the reason why they said was lockdowns which is an obviously spurious comment .

    There has in fact been a drop off but not due to that but as I stated , due to parental distrust engendered by the amount of Covid antivax sentiment .

    And yes that poster bringing that subject up is off topic , and I replied .

    I agree with you on the vaccines for children . It is now thought only necessary for children at severe risk from Covid or suffering from underlying conditions , and instances of Mis- C have reduced considerably since Omicron.

    This was not the case for the previous strains and the benefits of the vaccines outweighed the risks, as did the mitigation measures employed at the time . The two scenarios are not comparable at all ,CS .

    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I actually agree with your first line ....but where did I castigate any parent for not vaccinating?

    You are off on a misguided rant there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Can I say while I agree with most of what you say for the point of clarity in the context of the subject of the thread ? ...

    Covid vaccines have NOT been found in any way connected to the cases of childhood hepatitis of unknown origin .



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    No @Goldengirl .No link at all.But the hesitancy in getting kids vaccinated was there long before the hepatitis thing raised its head.Most people we discuss this with wouldn't mention hepatitis at all, wouldn't view it as having a link to the vaccines.

    I think there is fairly indisputable evidence that it isn't anyway, as most of the kids who had hepatitis had not been vaccinated, if I remember correctly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Now here's a mad one but have any of these children had the flu vaccine?

    Maybe they are looking in wrong place and linking it all to Covid no healthy kids were every vaccinated against flu( unless at risk) yet since Covid they want them all to get it.





  • Hepatitis (ie inflammation of liver) can range from almost imperceptible (unless tested for) to rapid functional destruction of the organ requiring transplant. Doctors don’t generally test for underlying hepatitis unless specific symptoms arise, ie. jaundice, pale stools, as most less specific gastric symptoms, like diarrhoea & vomiting, are put down to self-limiting viral gastroenteritis. In the past viral hepatitis in children was almost always self-limiting Hepatitis A virus acquired via fecal-oral route.

    Hepatitis can be autoimmune too, in response to various triggers in a genetically susceptible individual, but it’s not overly common. One syndrome, Reye’s, occurs in children who usually have been given aspirin to treat fever during an infection, so it is no longer given to children. That is a complex metabolic derangement which affects liver, brain cells and other systems. It is possible that this very severe hepatitis which is turning up in children may eventually be identified as a specific syndrome with ide tied triggers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    You are questioning the flu vaccine now as a probable cause ?!

    Most of these kids have not had ordinary immunisations, never mind flu vaccines and there hasn't been a requirement for flu vaccines much through Covid as it disappeared , pretty much.

    As a matter of interest, appledrop, do you know that while healthy young children are at little risk from Covid, from what we know now , young children are at high risk from flu and many are hospitalised with it every year here normally?

    The fact that there was and is still , a poor uptake of flu vaccines in young children is down to nothing else but lack of awareness and apathy really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes . And as I have posted previously one of tye issues Paediatric gastroenterologists are looking at is the possibility of gut infection lingering in pockets of the lining of tye intestine and triggering immune system overactivation leading to inflammation in the liver.

    Link posted previously above .

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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