Climate Change

@dublin49 Had a quick look at it, and the element of 25kg per kilo is correct, but it is only correct at the the total diet of the animal in KG of Dry matter.

What must be remembered in Ireland or any country that is based on grass, that the diet of the animal is well over 95% grass in terms of dry matter This grass harvests CO2 as it grows and also if the soil is undisturbed, ( ie uncultivated) it will store carbon. Biogenic methane, the methane produced by ruminants breaks down over 12 years. Thus a stable herd size will not add to methane emissions over the next 12years.

Grass based meat production is seen as the most sustainable of all. It has no leakage of carbon and a cyclical stable process. No emissions with power needed to cultivate crops, less slurry to spread. The beast is doing the work in a their preferred environment. Even on a wet weathers day most cattle prefer to be outside, be we must house to take care of our soil. Destroy that and it destroys your next year.

Farmers are sick of the treatment and the lack of understanding. Complete stonewalling and grandstanding shown by the media and members of the GP

This is a classic example of where a little bit of knowledge is far more dangerous than none. I'm not attacking you personally dublin but this is why irish farmers are so frustrated...where the fck does it say 25 kgs of grain in that? It says 25 kg of FEED!!! Irish cows and cattle derive the vast majority of there feed from grass..grass varies in dry matter but taken at an average of say 18-20 percent for the grazing season they consume over 100kg of grass fresh weight per day!! Are you going to eat that instead of them??

This is typically supplemented with a very small amount of grain and mostly by products from grain processing such as soya hulls,beet pulp, distillers grains,rape seed meal etc.

We can't produce food for human consumption such as veg or grains of milling quality on most of the soils in this country, but we can grow grass and the animals convert it into human edible protein for us..

It's not an accident that we have the agricultural systems we have,or because government forced us into animal agricultural, or because dairy farmers really enjoy being **** on 7 days a week in a 3 ft deep concrete pit, or sucker farmers jacking out calves at 4 in the morning before going to the day job the next day..we have no choice that's all our land is suitable for..but as i suspect the the real extremists want the likes of us gone, the land nationalised and rewilded, and we can go work in the food producing factories like the thickos we are!!!

Irish cattle numbers have remained generally stable since the 70's. As has worldwide cattle numbers at approx 1.1 billion. What has happened the human population since then. It has nearly tripled.

People's understanding of food production has fallen off a cliff. In the Ireland in the 70's most people were no more than 2-3 generations away from a farm. This has intensified as peoples "quality of life"has improved. People have become distanced from the foundation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, food, shelter and warmth.

Taking time to see and understand what happens first hand would be welcomed

A wise man once said this and I think it would be very worthwhile in this debate, "you have 2 ears and 1 mouth, you need to listen twice as much as you speak" Pity our media and those in politics, might need to take some time listen to all sides

Again you are the expert and I am the interested lay person .My initial post stated I am wiling to make lifestyle changes as I believe strange happening are afoot with our climate and I somewhat foolishly placed myself in the firing line on an issue I have no knowledge of by cutting and pasting a random slide,I really cant agree or disagree on any technical stuff . I read and respect George Monbiot of the Guardian and he was pretty emphatic that all meat production should stop on Primetime the other night.In the coming years we will all become much more aware of the details involved in all aspects of climate change mitigation.

First off Angus have a tendency to marble easily. Feeding grain infact will not add to the marbling. For cattle to be slaughtered, sufficient fatcover on the animal is needed. The small amount of grain coming towards the end of the rearing phase, really helps to top this up.

Hopefully this pic will explain, everytime you turn the soil it is realising carbon

Ps keep a lookout at the fat colour, a yellow fat colour is a good sign of grass fed, pale white would be more grain fed. This is why Irish butter is yellow and everywhere else is white, it's to do with beta carotene from the grass coming through. That's why kerrygold butter is seen as a premium product

Thanks for that, I came across an interesting article in Time magazine about how organic farmers are saying that grass fed cattle were in fact very low on co2 production.

If this is correct, I will look into it more, Ireland should definitely not be reducing its beef production and the EU should be made change their mind on it.

Thank you for engaging in discussion and I'm far from an expert.. my initial response may have been a bit aggressive but like I say the narrative that all farming is climate damaging just simply isn't true I believe..and I honestly don't think farming is responsible for anywhere near 37 percent of irelands emmissions if studied. Look up CRAG ireland, the argument they have is how cam we reduce by 25 percent when don't even know what 100 percent is. The data just simply isn't there.

I put a lot of blame on our own representation as they come across dreadfully in general in debates. Defensive and immediately looking for compensation, no alternative scientific argument to counter balance the likes of monbiot..way behind the curve and stop mentioning Brazil the general public don't care..

A large percentage of Irish beef farmers are very close to organic. We are using very little fertiliser, our dosing strategies are changing with feceal egg counts, greater use of vaccines.

On my own farm, this year i have only spread 13kg/acre of fertiliser. I have made greater use of slurry, with low emission spreading and even watered it down to allow a lot more ground get a small bit of nutrients back. This watering down was done after the spring.

I'm less likely to drop this low fertiliser usage. I just need to have a bank of feed for the winter. I heard a neighbour once say that he would prefer to have no money, than to be looking for fodder in a bad spring

@dublin49 as well as your concerns about feed which I think has been answered fairly well above, you mention 15,000L of water for 1KG of Beef.

This estimate is bogus too and often used by the supporters of lab grown meat.

The reality is the 15,000L includes every drop of water that falls on a field to grow the grass, in a country like ours that is known as rain and will fall on the same field whether or not cattle are being grazed there. Apart from being silly it is grossly inaccurate as it includes water not even taken up by grass which joins ground water or is taken up by other plants not consumed by cattle, also calculating water consumption in this way would mean land with lower stocking rates would actually use more water.

Also much of the water consumed directly by cattle on our farms is untreated, although some may be from treated sources also, lab grown meat will however require 100% treated water, which really weakens their arguments about lower water requirements.

Interesting comparing liters of water per calories, proteins and fats and beef is not as vastly different as other foods.

Fair play Dublin49. I think we are all just a little weary of the constant bashing in the media so may get a little tetchy. However you have turned out to be a really genuinely interested poster with a sense of fairness and a desire to hear both sides. Posters like yourself are always welcomed here in this forum. Thanks for hearing the farmers side without pre conceptions.

In fairness it has been totally one sided in the media so I don't blame you for having views we would consider wrong, thanks for coming on here and listening to our side of things too.

And BTW we have areas in which we need to do better aswell, and I don't think most farmers are looking for a free pass. Some of the dairy expansion especially I'm not happy with and we need to be mindful of water quality, animal welfare issues with calves etc. But we don't need to sacrifice an entire industry to fix those problems.

The elites and vegans can roar and piss and moan all they want re fake meat been the future but when you see Macdonalds doing this it paints a picture that this fad isn't going to catch hold

https://www.beefcentral.com/trade/mcdonalds-ends-its-us-experiment-with-plant-based-burger-option/

beyond meat share price collapse was a well deserved kick in the hole to investers

It's 100% not showing off just how tasty/fantastic a good quality fresh burger with just the right fat content cooked properly can be.....