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Sabina Higgins Letter to Irish Times calling for ceasefire on Ukraine

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    The only wars you've fought in were meme wars.

    The only Russians you've downed were White Russian cocktails you ordered from the bar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    What did the French resistance or Soviet soldiers do with Nazis? What did the Americans do with them?

    Did they have pints down the pub with them? Did they have tea with them and discuss their differences in a mutually respectful fashion?

    No, they killed them. That's what you do in any war. You kill. As many as you can. Ruthlessly.

    That imperative multiplies when you are fighting for a blameless peaceful democratic country which has had hell unleashed on it by a Nazi invader.

    None of this is "mystical belief". It's the grotesque reality of what war is.

    A war Ukraine did not choose to fight but now has no option but to fight, because the Nazi invader will never stop.

    Kill or be killed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    @Snooker Loopy "None of this is "mystical belief". It's the grotesque reality of what war is."

    I'm not objecting to fighting, or the reality of war, but to the creepy and wrong rhetoric of Yurt2 which I do not see replicated in others' (including yours) posts.

    Ruthlessly killing is what a professional soldier would do.

    Blood mysticism and revelling in "the wailing of mourning mothers" is the province of LARPer internet weirdos.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Think I've seen a few what seemed to me vaguely "Russia-coddling" Comment type pieces in the Irish Times since their invasion was launched (too lazy to search for examples right now! - sorry).

    Universities' Humanities depts. do seem to be a cozy nook, where odd-ball and whacky views can merrily fester away unexposed to the disinfectant of public scrutiny.

    Oh, God help me, am all for free speech and I don't want to sound like Senator McCarthy back in the Cold War or anything, but it does make you go hmmm at times (!)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Cheese toasties? Where are we going with this one?

    I'm lactose intolerant as it happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'm not revelling in anything, I'm introducing you to the reality that young Russian men are returning to their land as charred husks in boxes, by the hundreds and by the day.

    That's what Putin has brought upon his youth - tankies in the West and Russian nationalists need to snap out of it and recognise that reality. Not only is it reality, it is morally correct that it is following this course. When you violate a nation and the European peace as Russia has done, this is what the inevitable outcome will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    So you're intolerant of other people's opinions and lactose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Intolerant of dairy produce and sad sack enablers of fascism and irredentism in equal measure.

    Only one is regrettable (cheese is delicious).



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Look before you LARP.

    Is our Tankie President an enabler of fascism in your opinion?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    If he was behind the letter to the Irish Times, yes he is (a Tankie).

    We do know his wife is one for sure anyhow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,232 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Putin timed fúck all, he thought he was looking at a full annexation of Ukraine 4 months ago and further expansion of the USSR on the back of that.

    Absolute nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Do you think the Ukraine will regain the territory it's lost so far?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Spokesperson for Micky D published a letter today reiterating his support for Ukraine. No mention of his idiot wife's ill judged letter. We'll never hear anything from her again methinks 🤭


    That's probably the end of the matter now.





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I was really disgusted that the letter was published on the Aras’ site.

    The sentiments are grotesque. She didn’t put the blame on Russia, it was between Putin and Zelensky, if you didn’t know better you might think Ukraine had started the war.

    This is after countless war crimes, years after the annexation of Crimea, years of war in the East.

    Of course the Russian ambassador loved it.

    For all that, she does have the right to voice her disgusting views, but it should never have been on the Aras website.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who from the Irish Times will rescue Sabina from Dublin 8 tomorrow? Will it be Kathy Sheridan or Ann Harris? Could Fintan dare?


    The letters page has been silenced. Better have another privileged white woman from South County Dublin raise the trans issue to get us into the middle of August, so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc



    Could Fintan be an honourary SoCoDu woman for a day? :) Seriously though, RTE seem to have got its teeth in to the issue now and wants an answer on why the letter appeared on the president.ie website. That sudden interest in Journalism, especially when it concerns MDH, is unusual. The goverment spent a lot of time downplaying this and even the statement omits references to the letter. Does RTE expect the Aras or MDH to comment on who approved the publication of the letter on the website? Has "All The President's Men" been on the RTE schedule again?

    Regards...jmcc



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t have a problem with nations that are supporting Ukraine in the war either with personnel or arms. But if you’re willing to do neither of those things - and neither of you are advocating for Ireland to do so - then you should be advocating for a negotiated settlement. Anything else is just keyboard warrioring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    What's your Russian flag about if not keyboard warrioring?

    Have the courage of your convictions and let the thread see your actual stance on Russian's invasion.

    I'll operate off the presumption that you believe it's excusable and justifiable in your mind. Here's what I'd say to you. Prepare yourself for hard hard times for Russia. Much harder than a chilly winter in the West.

    Ireland supplying arms won't make a material difference (although I personally believe it should be done if we have anything useful to give), and doesn't make a blind bit of difference to those advocating a through defeat for Russia.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    MDH will survive no problem. RTE are as menacing as a dead sheep. The Irish Times, remember, started this and are ducking their role in it too. Mr. H just has to wing it in silence, Zappone style until himself and herself get the next day out - probably Electric Picnic, though Rose of Tralee or Ploughing Championships can be pencilled in by the handlers. Jeez, can you imagine if Nick Robinson or Donal Mac published a letter on the missus's blog calling for a ceasefire between the Palestinians and Israelis to copper fasten the existing borders?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭jmcc


    RTE also has some younger journalists who want to make their name. They might be different to the usual press release recyclers. Having MDH remaining silent might be quite funny for the government. He's the type who has an opinion on everything. The two of them will be locked down to make sure that they don't go off-script again. The statement was issued via a spox rather than risk having MDH address the media in a press conference. It would appear that the government has had a chat with them about the limits of the presidency.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    What does not make sense to me is this. If you consider yourself to be on the "left" politically, by default you should be fervently against imperial oppression and pro the right to fight back against it.

    I consider myself firmly on the left politically and this seems axiomatic to me.

    Yet there is a strain of highly vocal ideology which claims to be on the "left" which is now egging on imperial oppression, merely because it is not coming from the US or a western European country, and the victim is a country which seeks to ally with the free world.

    This segment of the "left" have run wholesale with the shameless lies of Putin. This is utterly batshit crazy. It is a repudiation, a two fingers gesture, to everything the left should stand for. It is morally bankrupt, depraved, decadent, dripping with western privilege. It is brain dead. In this country, Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Paul Murphy, Catherine Connolly etc., and now Sabina Higgins epitomise this. Large sections of the vocal pro-Corbyn online presence epitomise it in Britain. Some of the self styled "progressive" movement in the US are running with it too. I have serious questions in particular about Cori Bush, a high profile congresswoman, part of the group known as "The Squad", especially after what I've been reading today about her links to a thing called the African People's Socialist Party, which is now under FBI investigation as being a Russian influence operation.

    The real left in the European countries which are near to Russia and thus threatened by Russia are telling this section of the self styled western "left" in no uncertain terms that they are dead wrong. And this section of the western left refuses to listen. They apparently know better than people with real skin in the game. A very imperialist attitude, one might say.

    The only way this makes sense is if this section of the "left" either understands the world entirely through dumb slogans and does not truly believe in anything, ie. that's it's just cosplaying at politics, or if some influential opinion formers within this segment of the "left" of it really are bought off by Russia. Unfortunately I think both of these things are playing out.

    We all know that the far right internationally most obviously Trump and his whole mass cult and much of right wing America are allies of Russia. But it seems to me Vladislav Surkov's tactics of choreographing the entirety of Russian political life extends across the spectrum of politics internationally as well. It has to. It would make no sense if it didn't, and the evidence of our eyes and ears is telling us that it is happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    I believe Ireland should join NATO. And I believe NATO should be in Ukraine.

    We're taking the piss as regards our national security. We've decided to outsource it to the Brits should anything ever happen. We blithely assume it won't because we're a rock in the Atlantic next to Britain, and part of our island is in the UK.

    We take our geographical privilege very seriously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    No one is surprised by right wing muppets mounting a defence of Putin, but a lot of 'the left' are making clowns of themselves as well.

    They spend their political and intellectual life warning of the dangers of fascism, and when it finally arrives and clubs them over the head, they refuse to call it what it is because it's eminating from Moscow - a country that has spent it's time cultivating these idiots for decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    A lot of them have deluded themselves into believing the wrong side won the Cold War, and a lot of them have deluded themselves into thinking that Russia is the Soviet Union.

    The Soviet Uncle Joe is apparently preferable to the Yankee Uncle Joe.

    Russia has long since shed any pretence of fairness or equality - it is hyper capitalist - capitalism as red in tooth and claw as is possible, but what remains from the Soviet Union is the grotesque brutality and genocidal tendencies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Oh I would be happy to live under USA uncle joe, British uncle joe, or even EU uncle joe vs any Communist uncle joe. It's a no brainer. It's odd thinking with some of the younger ones. Like them picking up a mein kampf and deciding hey you know what he was right. I have no idea what the older ones are thinking though they have no excuse. Forgot about the old checkpoint charlie threat of nuclear annihilation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Can we afford to join ? our membership fee annually going on countries with similar populations would be about 5.1 to 5.2 billion per annum… that’s a NATO number based on what Denmark pay..

    think of all the land you could buy and housing that could be built for Ukrainians with that money 😎😍… 🙄😒



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    So where does this story go from here, I guess it depends whether the media see this as one worth pursuing and if anyone in government buildings want to settle some scores with the Aras. It's hard to see a scalp but I don't think government would be adverse to putting some heat on to have him squirm a bit.

    MDHs statement may have deflated this story a bit but it was unusual to see RTE pushing the Aras for comment on the publication of the letter on the president's official website.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Message to Russia: Cease fire and take over Donetsk/Luhansk, wait for 4/5 years for everyone to forget and try again in Estonia/Latvia. Rinse and Repeat.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Michael D’s statement was one of damage limitation and deflection … not what is needed. He’d have been better off just saying nothing as opposed to that weasel effort…

    rte and the media at large should be probing him. If he wants himself and the wife to go about making public comments regarding Irish politics or global events let’s hold the pair of them to account.

    btw… the public certainly cannot….I’ve clicked on the Aras YouTube channel… https://www.youtube.com/user/presidentofireland

    every video has the ability for people to comment, disabled… very democratic isn’t it… ‘ you can look, listen, form a view but you’ll have fûck all say ‘.

    also… Literally dozens and dozens of videos are of Sabina, alone giving speeches, orations, opinions or interviews…about this topic or that topic….domestic, global issues but again… god forbid in a democracy, any of us might have the right of reply or the ability to post an opinion. What qualifies her is anyones guess…an actress, not a politician….

    Some pair, Jesus. Almost once he got in the second time, not two fûcks were given…



This discussion has been closed.
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