N24 - Cahir to Limerick Junction [design and planning underway]

Cookiemunster · 23-05-2022 1:20pm

The preferred options are now available online.

https://n24cahirlimerick.ie/public-display-no-3/

marno21 · 23-05-2022 1:46pm

This looks fantastic. I hadn’t realised it went as far west as Brooks Bridge.

One thing, if this is to be 2+2 west of Tipp Town the route around Ballykisteen looks interesting to say the least

steeler j · 23-05-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119102709#Comment_119102709

The part around the Limerick junction is causing a lot of local debate. It will be interesting to see what they do around there

steeler j · 23-05-2022 3:01pm

Reports say it isn't going to be a motorway ( just like everyone here already knew ) . Single or dual carriageway or a possibility of a mixture of both

Limerick74 · 23-05-2022 5:18pm

Given today’s announcement, can we now all agree that the N24 & N20 are separate projects and both are needed on their own merits?

spacetweek · 24-05-2022 4:46pm

Yep, happy with that, ticks a lot of boxes:

Starts at Jct 10 on M8 so the N24 will flow through and not require motorists to use the M8 for part of the journey. This would have been planned all along when the M8 was built.
Junction and link provided for Bansha.
Local link roads included for Tipp Town which should enable more compact development to occur.
Wide part of existing N24 northwest of Tipp Town reused for new alignment.
Despite the name it continues well past LJ nearly as far as Ballyluddy.

DumbBrunette · 24-05-2022 9:05pm

Is there any plan to upgrade the section from Oola to Limerick city? It seems strange to omit this as it's probably the busiest section of the N24.

marno21 · 24-05-2022 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109427#Comment_119109427

There isn’t. Given that the other 90km of the N24 is on the list it is rather surprising that it was omitted.

Perhaps with a different party in power it may commence planning and design after the next NDP review.

KrisW1001 · 25-05-2022 8:02am

The Limerick end is very busy, but it's also safe, with good sightlines, and a consistent cross-section - most of it is wide single carriageway with few entrances, and the bit that’s narrow (Pallasgreen to Richmond) is very straight. Quite a bit may even be amenable to an online upgrade in future.

Both of the N24 projects were primarily aimed at addressing the very poor safety record of this road. I suspect that the choice of 2+2 was also for safety reasons, given the high amount of medium-distance agricultural and freight traffic in this part of the country.

Limerick74 · 30-05-2022 10:55pm

Railway controversy https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40883669.html

KrisW1001 · 31-05-2022 7:39am

The bigger issue with the line is that it doesn’t serve any population centres in County Limerick, and that really hits the ridership figures. Most other lines get their viability from commuter services for the short-distance travellers near to the urban terminii, not just the end-to-end, but Waterford-Limerick only really serves Waterford and South Tipp like this. The Eastern leg from Waterford to Rosslare, that has since closed, had the same problem: it didn’t serve New Ross or Wexford, which are both in Waterford’s hinterland for car commuting.

Paddico · 02-08-2022 1:43pm

I seem to have read somewhere that this has been downgraded from Motorway to 2x2 but cant find it now. Anyone else have more info?

Mother Trucker · 02-08-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419294#Comment_119419294

It was never going to be motorway, it has been in planning as Type 2 DC.

steeler j · 02-08-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419294#Comment_119419294

There was talk about it being a motorway but that was never going to be realistic when u consider the amount of traffic on it . It was also going to end up being a type 1 single carriageway or type 2 dual carriageway.

Chris_5339762 · 02-08-2022 2:34pm

I can't see this being anything less than 2x2 to be honest. Traffic levels aren't there for any motorway, but yet it would be silly to build such a road for anything less than 2x2.

I can see it a-la New Ross though, mostly 2x2 with a few small, almost unnoticable stretches of Type 1 around the bigger towns.

spacetweek · 02-08-2022 10:08pm

They said motorway in a progress so far document, but since the whole route will never be motorway this was always unlikely.

End to end 2+2 would be great and nobody would complain.

Paddico · 15-08-2022 2:51pm

Would anyone have an idea of cost difference between Motorway and 2x2.

Whats the real difference apart from slicker/smoother intersections, no roundabouts and perhaps a wider road?

Mother Trucker · 15-08-2022 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119476689#Comment_119476689

The lack of hard shoulders would be the main difference, compact GSJs and/or roundabouts instead of full sized GSJs, and a lower speed limit.

Chris_5339762 · 15-08-2022 5:51pm

Also gradients are lesser with motorway, and the radius of curvature of bends is much greater with motorway. It'd be a much bigger project.

2+2 will be fine - maybe stick to the old plans of Type 1 (basically motorway) past Mooncoin, but thats it.

Paddico · 16-08-2022 12:33pm

cheers folks

steeler j · 21-09-2022 6:30pm

The link for bansha village has been changed , its supposed to run from scart to bansha now .

Paddico · 28-09-2022 12:49pm

More on it here but fuggal new news really

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/918316/tipperary-councillor-criticises-grossly-unfair-change-of-n24-bansha-link-road-route.html

Cookiemunster · 16-01-2023 4:08pm

As part of Phase 3 – Design & Environmental Evaluation, the project team will be publishing a series of design updates for the project. Design Update No. 1 will be available to view on the project website www.n24cahirlimerick.ie from 11am on Monday 23rd January 2023.

https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/n24-cahir-limerick-junction-project-design-update-no1

steeler j · 16-01-2023 6:09pm

I wonder what will be in the update and how detailed it will be considering they have only started phase 3 a few months ago

Limerick74 · 23-01-2023 11:39am

Design update now live on the N24 website Design Update No.1 – N24 (n24cahirlimerick.ie)

steeler j · 23-01-2023 11:54am

The route is narrowed to 100 meters and potential junctions marked out

pigtown · 23-01-2023 1:38pm

In terms of active travel options it appears that a cycle route the length of the current N24 is the plan.

I wonder will this be just some lines on the hard shoulder like the old N7 between Limerick and Nenagh or will it be a proper segregated lane.

KrisW1001 · 23-01-2023 2:13pm

If the cross-section is 2+2, as is expected, then the active travel will be fully segregated from the motor lanes.

EDIT: it looks like the active-travel lanes will be built on the old N24 for most of the scheme length.

Pete_Cavan · 23-01-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120146020#Comment_120146020

There isn't a hard shoulder to put lines on on the N24, they are going to have to create the space for it.

Limerick74 · 23-01-2023 3:53pm

The drawings show the active travel mainly on the existing N24 away from the new N24 road.

Chris_5339762 · 23-01-2023 9:18pm

Looks like they're going to just tack this onto the current roundabouts at the M8 junction. Connecting a motorway to a cross country dual carriageway through a network of three roundabouts is UK levels of stupidity. Whilst the traffic numbers will be low enough, the closest in terms of absolute daftness and nonsense are the junctions on the Aberdeen bypass.

https://goo.gl/maps/BtkLah8u4e2beEaP6

https://goo.gl/maps/zwm11tewYJfQ8WZz5

KrisW1001 · 24-01-2023 8:29am

A roundabout was the wrong type of junction for M50, but this is not M50 - this is a quiet stretch of motorway (13,000 AADT) meeting a quiet stretch of primary road (6,500 AADT). For this junction, a dumb-bell using a pair of roundabouts is entirely appropriate, and these are big roundabouts: each is 80 metres wide, which is slightly bigger than the dumb-bell roundabouts on the new M7 J10, a junction which carries far more traffic than this ever will.

Also, it is not a “network of three roundabouts”, it’s a standard dumb-bell interchange. The third, smaller, roundabout off the eastern side of the dumb-bell might carry N24 traffic now, but it will be used only for local traffic once this project opens. I do expect that when the eastern side of this project is prepared, there will be some minor capacity improvements for this junction (the overbridge may be widened), but it’s not going to turn into a free-flow interchange.

Blowing the roads budget on free-flow junctions everywhere is nonsense, using roundabouts on low-traffic junctions is not.

marno21 · 24-01-2023 9:59am

The plan during the last round of planning back in the late 00s was for a 2nd over bridge to be build over the M8 and the M8/N24 junction to be converted to a grade separated roundabout ala the N18/N19 junction. Would definitely be sufficient here.

Reading between the lines here for the routing, does anyone else think this will be phased with the first phase from the western end to east of Bansha? The 90 degree turn placed in the revised routing here would seem to suggest so. Eamon Ryan never shuts up about prioritising the section bypassing Tipp Town so it’s not altogether surprising.

The remaining 11km can be progressed by a Government that understands the benefits of safe interurban routes

pigtown · 24-01-2023 11:06am

Are you saying this isn't a safe route?

marno21 · 24-01-2023 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149923#Comment_120149923

Those bends at Ballydrehid could do with replacement, and much of the route from Bansha to the M8 is legacy road with accesses, poor sighlines, junctions etc.

We should be aiming to get all of that route type removed from the national primary network

steeler j · 24-01-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150092#Comment_120150092

A lot of local vocal support for doing the Tipp town section first, putting pressure on government, Tii are very much in favour and pushing for the whole scheme because of the terrible road between bansha and the m8 . I hope the Tii get the whole thing do ,doing the Tipp town section would be doing a half job . A similar approach to the macroom bypass would do , openeast bansha to west Tipperary early .

KrisW1001 · 24-01-2023 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149597#Comment_120149597

I don’t think it will be phased, and the “90 degree turn” is clearly for large roundabout interchange. The spur towards old N24 here is a good bit shorter that it was on the preferred corridor, so I suspect that the more detailed traffic studies showed that the amount of traffic that splits toward Bansha at this point is the same or greater than the amount that would stay on N24 towards Tipp town. If this is the case, a large at-grade roundabout would be the appropriate option rather than spending a fortune to put a higher capacity grade-separated junction onto a mainline that will be only lightly trafficked.

But assuming that the blue-blobs represent places where a junction is likely to go, rather than where junctions could go, my concerns would be about the closely-spaced junctions around Limerick Junction, here:

Obviously the location of this Limerick Junction junction has been chosen for the benefit of the racecourse, not the train station, but there’s less than 2 km between it and the Monard junction, which seems to be a little too closely-packed on what’s supposed to be a long-distace road.

BagofWeed · 26-01-2023 2:34pm

Absolute pathetic carry on regarding the N24 route and I can tell you as a fact the residents in the above area are furious over the route. There was a route chosen over twenty years ago going north of Monard and below the quarry that was accepted as inevitable by residents and was well out of the way of the existing N24 but these new plans almost seem to be deliberately chosen as to make the project unviable.

If they were serious about expected population growth then a motorway should be constructed between Limerick and Waterford instead of the garbage proposed now which if built say within 5 years (which it won't) will be outdated within another 10 years. The closeness of the proposed road to Tipp itself is more suited to a relief or inner ring road than an actual by pass.

steeler j · 26-01-2023 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160819#Comment_120160819

If this was designed as a motorway it wouldn't get pass the PSC because it would be complete overkill . There is no need for this section of N24 to be anything more than a type 2 DC. The local residents are just nimbys that u get with every road project and most of the noise locally is coming from a small few people who haven't a clue what there talking about .

BagofWeed · 26-01-2023 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161562#Comment_120161562

A type 2 DC should be fine but the proposed section from N74 onwards towards the Cullen Road at Monard is going to be a tight fit requiring lots of tight bends considering it's meant to be a by pass, I have family close to the original route and none of them complained in fact they were all supportive of it but the new route is a mess and will cause considerable annoyance to people living on the existing Tipp to Monard road.

This proposed road will carry traffic from the southeast to the mid west and west and at least if it is to be a type 2 then it should be straight and not twisting around the place for the sake of Irish awkwardness especially considering there is very flat land in the general area. That bend at the Bansha turn off is absolutely nonsensical.

I think the residents along the existing Monard to Bohercrowe roundabout are more concerned about the disruption the road construction will cause rather than being against the actual road and I don't blame them as there was a perfectly good route that had been chosen years ago that just got abandoned, a route that wouldn't have the potential to cause the mess that this proposed route will cause during construction from Monard to Tipp.

steeler j · 26-01-2023 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161651#Comment_120161651

Bohercrowe to Limerick junction is offline and the section between Limerick junction and monard is very short .I know there is some locals saying it will take 3 years to build and traffic disruptions in the area will for 3 years . The 3 years would be an estimated time for the entire construction of the route , the Limerick junction to monard section would only need a fraction of that time to complete. Most of it is just sepulation until there is a detailed design.

BagofWeed · 27-01-2023 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120161765#Comment_120161765

5 roundabouts between the Cashel Rd and Monard ! On an interurban ! How is it other projects on national primary roads don't have these in such a short section ? An extremely underpowered design. Why so many roundabouts and not separated interchanges like other NPR's get ? The proposed road from Bohercrow to Monard will have to cross the existing road 3 times in a very short section guaranteeing traffic disruption during construction all along that stretch. The existing road may well be moved to facilitate the new road meaning even more disruption. A by pass should be just that, a by pass, these plans are basically a relief road like the Inner Relief Frank Drohan Rd in Clonmel.

BagofWeed · 27-01-2023 7:42pm

...

steeler j · 27-01-2023 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167086#Comment_120167086

U have seen the design already ?. No one knows if they are roundabouts , compact gsj or t junctions yet . There may not be 3 crossings ,there may only be 1 crossing of the current road . A parallel road can be build offline first and traffic travel on that while an upgrade of the current is done .

KrisW1001 · 29-01-2023 2:27pm

The only junction that you could definitely say will be a roundabout is the one east of Bansha:

Of course people will complain that this creates a dog-leg in the N24, but my feeling is that the majority of traffic in this area is moving between Bansha and Cahir, with very low traffic levels on the stretch running north of Bansha (the current road is very quiet west of Bansha as it is). Seeing that most drivers want to leave/join N24 at this point, any kind of compact grade-separated junction here would be more expensive and produce worse traffic flow than the roundabout.

Paddico · 31-01-2023 1:37pm

I would be very surprised if there was any roundabouts.

Still very much in the design phase and free flow is whats always in mind creating these new roads

marno21 · 31-01-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182267#Comment_120182267

As per KrisW1001 above, the revised design turns that junction east of Bansha from freeflow on the N24 with a link road to the existing N24 to a new layout with a three arm roundabout, one leg N24 to Limerick, one leg N24 to Cahir and 3rd leg connecting to the existing N24.

I would be incredibly surprised for this project to be anything other than a Tipp Town/Bansha bypass for the time being. It can be revisited with a new link to the N24 at Cahir with a less hostile Minister.

KrisW1001 · 31-01-2023 6:01pm

I see no reason for this to ever be revisited. We need to lose the fetish for free-flow junctions everywhere - this is a low-traffic road, and the majority of traffic here is Bansha-Cahir, so a roundabout makes the most sense. The next most sensible in terms of volume is a Turn-off-to-stay-on (TOTSO) arrangement, with the mainline turning toward Bansha and drivers not wishing to go there must take an exit to re-join N24.

The problem with that second option is that it would cause accidental traffic going through Bansha, defeating the main objective of this scheme, which is to get long-distance traffic out of these two towns.

I expect this to be a 2+2 for the length, with one roundabout east of Bansha, and Compact GSJs for the other junctions. I don’t expect all three junctions around Limerick Junction to end up being built, though. That would be far more than this quiet route will need for decades.

Tipperary Town and Bansha are fairly small settlements, so this road running near to them doesn’t risk it becoming a collector-distributor as could happen near to bigger towns. It's the number of junctions, not the proximity that makes the difference between a good long-distance bypass and a C/D road.

MentalMario · 06-02-2023 5:26pm

Anybody want to take a guess at how much time this will save compared to the current road?

Say Cahir to Limerick City.

Currently an hour or so. Should it save 20 minutes at rush hour?

touts · 21-02-2023 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208657#Comment_120208657

Middle of the night with no traffic and sticking to the speed limit you would do Cahir to Limerick in 50 minutes.

Middle of the day it all depends on traffic. There is a constant stream of traffic and not a lot of overtaking opportunities so come up behind something slow and you could easily be 1 hr 10min.

If there is anything wrong in Tipperary town you could add another 10 or 15 minutes to that.

N24 - Cahir to Limerick Junction [design and planning underway]

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