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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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    #9422
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419345#Comment_119419345

    No one is suggesting there's one reason for this. 

    Including me.

    What we're suggesting is there's a myriad of reasons, and that the vaccine isn't in any way a significant player in this

    Good for you. But I don't share your confidence in that view, and have no idea why you are so sure of it.



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    #9423
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418949#Comment_119418949

    Nope, both you and the grifters this story was shared by avoid asserting positives directly because you are "just asking questions". This enables you to make the implication that these deaths have something to do with the vaccine, but when you're challenged you can backpeddle and avoid providing any actual evidence.

    There is no evidence that links these deaths to the vaccines. You believing it's plausible is not evidence. You are not an expert and you are highly biased towards anto-vaccine explanations, so your level of plausibility is suspect.

    You've been asked several times to explain what evidence you have or if you have any evidence. You won't state the truth about this. You aren't able to simply state you've nothing to support the connection.


    And as always you ignore all of the context around this. Like the fact that there's been no other evidence that the vaccine is killing people at rates that would account for these excess deaths. There's no evidence that the vaccine is causing these deaths in other places. If the vaccine was the cause, then these things would be very clear and apparent. They are not.

    The vaccines are heavily scrutinised by tons of organisations, so it's not plausible or rational to suggest that they just missed this level of death in the vaccine or were somehow unable to make the same connection you did. And we also know that you will not outright state that there's a global cover up of this, so that possibility can be excluded also. And in the absence of another explanation that we all know that you will never attempt to provide, we can conclude there's no rational explanation for this.

    This shows that the vaccines causing these deaths is not plausible as an explanation.



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    #9424
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    I guess if this guy had got his way in August 2021, we might have more conclusive evidence, one way or the other:

    The chief pathologist at the University of Heidelberg, Peter Schirmacher, is pushing for many more autopsies of vaccinated people. In addition to corona deaths, the corpses of people who die in connection with a vaccination should also be examined more frequently

    The reason he wanted to do many more, is because of the ones that were completed, he came to some alarming conclusions:

    More than 40 people have already been autopsied who died within two weeks after a vaccination. Schirmacher assumes that 30 to 40 percent of them died from the vaccination. In his view, the frequency of fatal vaccination consequences is underestimated - a politically explosive statement in times when the vaccination campaign is losing momentum, the Delta variant is spreading rapidly and restrictions on non-vaccinated people are being discussed.

    Of course there were no shortage of people to tell him he was wrong. But this is one of the world's top pathologists, with the expertise to reply:

    Schirmacher insists on his opinion. "The colleagues are definitely wrong because they cannot judge this specific question competently," he reacted. He doesn't want to spread panic and is by no means an opponent of vaccination, says the professor, who claims to have been vaccinated against Corona himself. Vaccination is an essential part of the fight against the virus, he clarifies. But you have to weigh the medical reasons for vaccination individually. From his point of view, the "individual protection considerations" are overlaid by the idea of ​​quickly vaccinating society.

    And within his profession of pathology in Germany, he was not some lone crank going against the consensus:

    The Federal Association of German Pathologists is also pushing for more autopsies of vaccinated people. This is the only way that connections between deaths and vaccinations can be ruled out or proven, says Johannes Friemann, head of the autopsy working group in the association. However, from his point of view, there are still too few autopsies to speak of an unreported number. "You don't know anything yet." General practitioners and health authorities must be made aware. The federal states would have to instruct the health authorities to order autopsies on site. The Federal Association of Pathologists had already requested this in a letter to Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU) in March. He remained unanswered, says Friemann.

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/wissenschaft-heidelberg-chef-pathologe-pocht-auf-mehr-obduktionen-von-geimpften-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-210801-99-647273



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    #9425
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418949#Comment_119418949


    If you were genuinely seeking information or were concerned about medical treatment, logically you wouldn't be seeking it on a conspiracy theory forum.

    Logically and by definition, as a layperson, you don't know more than the world's expert consensus

    In terms of probability, you haven't spotted something they haven't.

    Any poster with an ounce of logic can see you have no objectivity on this subject.

    Your entire position is illogical.



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    #9426
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419800#Comment_119419800

    Any poster with an ounce of logic can see you have no objectivity on this subject.

    And likewise.



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    #9427
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419435#Comment_119419435

    Unbelievable stuff. Absolute fanatical tunnel vision where no other way is possible. Perhaps some sort of a buyers remorse?



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    #9428
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419826#Comment_119419826

    Yea, the "nuh uh, you are too" tactic doesn't really work, or address any of the points raised against you man.

    You started off on this thread under the pretense of not being an anti-vaxxer.

    No one buys this.



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    #9429
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

    Buyers remorse? But the vaccine has been shown to be overwhelming safe.

    If it was killing people... You think you'd be able to show that.



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    #9430
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

    Nope. That's more you trying to assign beliefs to people to explain away why no one has been convinced by your conspiracy theories.

    "It can't be that I'm wrong and my arguments are bad, it must bet that you guys are all fanatics."


    But again, you ignore the actual arguments that people have been presenting.

    It's not plausible to suggest that the vaccines are the cause because:

    1. There's no evidence that they are.
    2. That evidence should be clear and obvious and being reported on.
    3. it's not possible that experts and organisations have missed this while you guys somehow caught it using no evidence, education or anything more than twitter.
    4. it's not possible that there's a global conspiracy to cover it up, as none of you guys will even directly suggest that.

    Which of these points do you disagree with?



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    #9431
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419899#Comment_119419899

    Also, I got my vaccine and booster for free...



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    #9432
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419826#Comment_119419826

    You've just admitted to having no objectivity on the matter.

    Also, since I am reflecting the views of the consensus of medical science on this, you're equating that on the same level as your own personal opinions.

    "My personal openly biased opinion is greater than their science" - narcissists everywhere.



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    #9433
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419840#Comment_119419840

    Absolutely fanatical tunnel vision that there's something, anything wrong with vaccines. Validating anyone who expresses any sort of anti-vax belief, even if it's completely contradictory, even if it's some batshiat insane claim they are killing huge numbers, or that silly-beyond-belief conspiracies are occurring

    What I can only presume are adults, playing make-believe about medicine, on a conspiracy forum, having to post here because their views are too idiotic for any normal forums.

    Being so deluded that they can't see any of this and believe they know more than doctors, physicians, scientists, experts, virologists

    That type of fanaticism?



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    #9434
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419951#Comment_119419951

    Also, based on the vague, wishy washy definition we've been getting all doctors and experts are also "extreme pro vaxxers."



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    #9435
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Sure, it is ABV disease (Anything But Vaccines) which is causing injuries and excess death. I do have no problem with people on this thread who do not want to see it. Multiple insurance companies begs to differ.

    With this unprecedented scale of vaccination in the middle of pandemic using new technology which was not tested enough (compared to how other vaccines were developed and tested), no wonder there is more injuries and also deaths.


    https://frettin.is/2022/07/22/107-tilkynningar-um-aukaverkanir-medal-barna-thar-af-11-alvarlegar-hvad-thydir-thad-i-raun/




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    #9436
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419951#Comment_119419951

    I'm a believer in evidence based medicine. But sadly the events of the vaccine roll out have shaken that belief, and in my confidence on the views of the consensus of medical science. That consensus has been shown to be driven by commercial interests and an industry that suppresses negative trial results and fails to report adverse events.

    I will happily admit my objectivity on the subject has suffered the longer I spend in this thread listening to the desperate clutching at straws and deflection that goes on here.

    But my opinion has not changed much, it has just been strengthened. I have always said that I am emphatically not against covid vaccines for elderly, immunocompromised etc.

    But what I am very anti is the relentless pressure to get every man, woman and child vaccinated regardless of the individual risk/benefit profile. And also the divide and conquer strategy, which appears to have been significantly more successful than the vaccine. And the constant revisionism.

    If that is narcissistic, in your opinion, then so be it.



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    #9437
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420036#Comment_119420036

    Link dump for yet another independent "truth" right wing media site... Yea I don't trust them



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    #9438
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    I'm a believer in evidence based medicine.


    Yet provide zero evidence to back up your claims regarding vaccines.



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    #9439
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420069#Comment_119420069

    But you keep ignoring all of the anti-vaxx stuff coming from your pals.

    And when you're asked about that stuff, you either pretend it doesn't exist, or when you do dain to comment on it, you agree with it.

    Even now, you're supporting pat's claims with one hand while saying you don't agree with the other.



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    #9440
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,526 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420123#Comment_119420123

    Not sure the OP understands what evidence-based medicine means. Would love to hear his/her definition.



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    #9441
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420069#Comment_119420069

    Dude..

    You're on a forum for people who believe that space travel is fake, that Covid was a big conspiracy, that there's a secret world government trying to enslave us, not only that you're in the same thread as them, and alongside them with the same views, validating each other.

    At what point do you question your personal beliefs, because if not at that extreme point, I doubt there is any hope.



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    #9442
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420123#Comment_119420123

    I've provided evidence for everything I have claimed as a fact - eg the vaccine received EUA specifically to prevent symptomatic COVID infection, and not to prevent hospitalisation and death.

    And I have acknowledge everything that is without evidence and merely my opinion, and is worth no more or less than your own opinion.



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    #9443
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420188#Comment_119420188

    So that's about as close to an admission we'll get that there's no evidence linking the deaths in Spain to covid...


    Also, no, you didn't present evidence for that claim. You were substituting your opinion on what was said while ignoring all of the explanations being spoon fed to you as well as all of the context.



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    #9444
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,596 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420188#Comment_119420188

    Your opinion is worth a hell of a lot less than the medical and scientific professionals who say otherwise than you



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    #9445
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,179 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419787#Comment_119419787

    The numbers are bonkers.

    Look at the population of Germany.

    Look at how many vaccines they rolled out.

    This guy is linking 30 - 40 percent of all autopsied deaths to the vaccines.

    Those numbers map to huge numbers of deaths.

    He took a wrong turn somewhere there.

    I suspect this is why we've never heard of similar results from anyone else, or seen the study that supported this claim.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #9446
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420220#Comment_119420220

    Sure but to give two examples, my opinion on the possibility of vaccines being a contributory factor in some deaths is shared by Peter Schirmacher, German Pathologist I quoted earlier.

    And my opinion that vaccinating everybody regardless of age is unnecessary, and potentially harmful, is shared by Dr Martin Kulldorff, who previously was a Professor of Medicine in the Division of Pharmacoepidemiology and Pharmacoeconomics at Harvard Medical School

    One thing that I believe is a key aspect of COVID-19 is that while anybody can get infected, there is more than a 1000-fold difference in the risk of dying from it among the oldest versus the youngest. This is something we’ve known from the very beginning in the spring and winter of 2020. For older people, this vaccine is very important, because we know the vaccine can prevent death for this group. However, for younger people, it is not so clear cut, because for older people, even if there are small risks from the vaccine that we may not know about yet, the benefits far outweigh the risks. In the case of children, we don't know these risks yet as it takes time to learn the safety profile of a vaccine, but we do know there's a very minuscule risk for mortality from COVID-19 for this group.

    It's not clear what the risks and benefits are for younger people, and I think that public health authorities have made a huge mistake by pushing it for everybody instead of just focusing on older people. For example, there have been mandates for people working to get vaccinated, and the bill also mandated for students and some children too as well. However, the people who really need it are retired people and for them, there are no mandates. The focus should have been on reaching older people and by making a huge controversy with mandates, and I believe that a lot of older people refused the vaccine because of that. I think that those vaccine fanatics who have been pushing this vaccine have actually damaged vaccine confidence in the country. Not just for the COVID-19 vaccine, but other very important vaccines such as the measles vaccine, polio vaccine, and so on.

    http://www.hhpronline.org/articles/2022/5/7/rebuilding-trust-after-covid-with-dr-martin-kulldorff



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    #9447
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420229#Comment_119420229

    This guy is linking 30 - 40 percent of all autopsied deaths to the vaccines.

    No he is linking 30-40% of the 40 autopsies he did on deaths within two weeks of vaccination to the vaccines. Quite a significant difference.



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    #9448
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420258#Comment_119420258

    Ok.

    And all of the other doctors, professionals and experts who were behind the effort to get people vaccinated?

    What about their opinion? Why trust this one doctor over them? Why do you trust him over them?



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    #9449
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420269#Comment_119420269

    So at best, that's 16 people who be believes were possibly killed by the vaccine.

    What's the issue?



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    #9450
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420298#Comment_119420298

    16 who he ASSUMES were killed by the vaccine. He doesn't have any proof.

    Language is important.



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    #9451
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,179 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420269#Comment_119420269

    What were his findings for the next 40 he did? Why haven't we heard of them???

    It is bonkers. So what stopped two weeks later? They were vaccinating for months in Germany.

    The numbers don't add up. The story doesn't add up.

    If he did the autopsies in the 'study' claimed, he should have documented proof and evidence that can be shown to other pathologists.

    So where is this study?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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