Scottish independence

Ah stop it now. You're just repeating the same ill-informed points that were debunked already.

Currently none

Why would 5 million scots stay British citizens if the majority of them have just voted to become independent? Your posts make no sense at all and I don't know where you are getting your information

Come again?

It's fascinating just how many ways one poster can be so ill-informed, even after bring corrected.

If the majority vote to become an independent country, why would the majority refuse to take up Scottish citizenship? I think you are referring to some die-hard unionists who will not want to take Scottish citizenship so will retain their British citizenship. If they stay resident in Scotland, what elections do you think they will be voting in the rUK? Again, your posts make little sense

Yes, they sound surprisingly hard line - like DUP voters or ERG Tories....very direct and confrontational and even quite intolerant of anyone who dares disagrees with them.

I just read through the 2013 White Paper.

I think that's a good reference as it is framed around a definite date of a referendum (18th September 2014) and an independence date (24th March 2016).

But it's very big on aspiration and low on details.

It talks about joining the EU without a hint that it may be vetoed.

It talks about joining the EU and keeping Sterling, without a hint that this may be a very tough negotiation if not impossible.

Now obviously the situation around the EU has changed drastically since but Scotland joining the EU would still be subject to veto and joining with Sterling would still be something that they may not be allowed do.

It mentions a lifetime saving of £100 million by getting rid of Trident.

But makes no mention of any quid pro quo that the rUK may look for in return.

Same with the natural resources, no mention of the rUK looking for anything back after all their decades of investment in the oil fields.

The timeline is aspirational also, 18 months to full independence and a comprehensive treaty with rUK ?

And finally it has a lot of left leaning populism in it. Reduced childcare costs, better pensions, Post Office back under national control, more money for this that and the other.

Oh and there is one more thing. Cutting corporation tax by 3% to grow inward investment. Look out Ireland.

If you acknowledge they are very different policies, led by very different politicians, then why do you assume the same level of dishonesty to pro-independence supporters? It's interesting you mention Project Fear, as that phrase was originally associated with the unionists in the previous referendum.

I haven't seen the SNP suggest independence will be easy. I think supporters realise there will be challenges. It's a case of what's worse: being tied to the British government as it lurches to the right, or aspiring to be a small to medium size nation as part of the EU.

Interested to hear what constitutes Scottish independence being a failure? Was Irish independence a failure considering the first decades of it brought about civil war, trade war, mass emigration, economic stagnation etc.? I think the majority of Irish people at the time would have had no regrets despite the problems. Very few countries if any that get away from Westminster find themselves pining to be back. Don't know why Scotland would be any different.

You refuse to answer what election these people who stay British can vote in rUK?

And that seems in short supply in Scotland.

Ireland when seeking independence had an identity to get behind, it had been downtrodden by the British (Scots as well as English by the way) and it had a different religion to differentiate itself.

That's not the case in Scotland, Scottish identity is not strong enough to win independence.

So what other reasoning is there.

A gripe with the current incumbents in Westminster who could well be gone in a few years?

i wonder ,is there actually a study outlining if scotland would be financially better off in eu rather then in uk .

Re Nato - as Scotland is strategically positioned between the Arctic and Atlantic (especially as the Arctic ocean is likely to become navigable as a result of globals warming) I think that Nato would be quite keen on keeping them in the alliance. On all of your points these would be negotiated at the time.

In terms of financing stuff in Scotland, this will obviously come from the same magic money tree that the Tories are going to harvest for their tax cuts.

'If'.

If 'if's were donkeys you could ride to Penzance.

No.

I'm suggesting that you used a big 'if'.

Here's another one for you, 'if' Westminster keeps denying a plebescite I don't thing very many will be coming down off fences on Westminster's side.