What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

"They" - lmao

The illusive "They" who did "this" to London and are doing "this" to Ireland.

You think people argue against points made here? lmao

Yes people are really missing out by not engaging in discourse with people they feel are closet racists with 10s of thousands of anti immigrant posts under their belts. Also I'm glad you were able to clarify the earlier posters use of the word "They". I was thinking he was talking about some weird conspiracy about Jewish people trying to replace the white race as he seems to hint at conspiracies in quite a few posts. Appreciate the clarification on that one bud. Now lets get back to the topic at hand and keep the thread on course.

Before I go any further so, I’ll answer your question - the plan here is to figure out why you’re so determined to break people’s balls who come here looking to make a better life for themselves and their families and want to contribute to Irish society and make Ireland their home. Public services like health and education were slashed to shyte decades ago, homelessness has always existed, organised crime and paramilitary groups were always romanticised and leading criminal figures idolised by idiots. Immigration didn’t change any of that, or add to it, or anything else. The plan here is to figure out why there wasn’t a peep out of you before now, when the same issues still existed, and they weren’t exacerbated by immigrants either, as immigrants even when they’re all taken together, still only make up a minority in Irish society.

With that out of the way -

We were talking about London’s East End, which is only one part of London, and you made claims off the back of the documentary about people becoming a minority in their own country, because people were being pushed out of London’s East End by immigrants moving into the area and it would become a ghetto. My only point was that people were leaving of their own accord, and those that stayed wanted to stay because it was their home, they’re not going anywhere. London’s East End was always a ghetto, characterised by poverty, crime and destitution, it always had immigrants, and yer man claiming immigrants moving into the area was ethnic genocide, was talking out his arse. You strike me as a rational sort, so I don’t believe for a minute you even believed yourself what you were claiming. You’re well aware other people will believe it though.

It’s not because of a few Irish Missionaries that we’re obligated to be swamped at all with migrants from all over the place. You asked the question what have we ever done as if you weren’t fully aware that the Irish have travelled to every corner of the world spreading their ideas and bringing with them their culture and values, which they were far more effective in doing than the armies of the Empires ever were. We welcomed people here from every corner of the world, we still do, because it’s what we do. That’s what it means to be Irish, as opposed to the idea that we’re a nation who disappeared up our own hole, and then wonder why there’s nobody wants anything to do with us.

What you appear to have neglected is other people. Otherwise you wouldn’t have to be making all sorts of predictions of doom and gloom to stir up resentment and bitterness towards immigrants. Of course you’ll claim you don’t blame immigrants for what the Government which was formed by the Irish electorate, is doing, in fulfilling our international obligations. But it’s quite obvious when you’re talking about waiting lists in hospitals or having to wait hours to be seen or the pressure on our public services, and immigrants as though they shouldn’t be here, that you’re using issues which have always existed in Ireland to argue against immigrants coming to Ireland and availing of public services to which they are as entitled as you, I or anyone else are. What you neglected was the people who were affected by those issues you appear to be only pointing out now, because they’re the people would support you if you had supported them. They’re not interested in fighting your war or doing your dirty work, no more than the young people in that documentary were interested in maintaining a lifestyle of grinding poverty just because their parents thought there was any value in being dirt poor and suffering in hardship made them respectable members of the community. They don’t want to believe that nobody gives a shìt, because it means having to face the reality that their self-victimisation was all for nothing. That’s why they’re doing no different than you’re doing now - playing the victim, when in reality you’re actually doing alright for yourself, and your complaining about immigrants and the Government and anyone who doesn’t share your ideas are a tough act to maintain when people just don’t appear to be all that interested.

Ah right, I thought you were asking me what MY plan was, seemed a fairly straightforward question, to which I gave a straightforward answer. The Government’s plan, as far as I can tell, appears to be an attempt to keep the Irish economy afloat by increasing the population through immigration in order to fill gaps in the labour market as cheaply as possible in order to maintain the supply of goods and services in this country. It’s more of a long-term strategy - take a bit of a hit now, in the hope that it pays off later.

Our services ARE fit to cater for our own citizens, and immigrants alike. They’re public services, they’re not provided on the basis of anyone’s citizenship status, and the fact that they’ve been underfunded for decades is because of the lack of Government investment - they want everything done as cheaply as possible. You’re acting like Government can’t do both - provide public services to citizens as well as immigrants, without any distinction between the two, but that’s exactly what they’re doing, it’s how public services have always been funded and functioned.

Just because you don’t give a shyte about our international obligations doesn’t mean our Government has that same luxury, we’re operating in a global market for the last number of decades and we can’t afford to isolate ourselves from the international community. Britain has chosen to do just that and forge international agreements with other countries outside of the EU. They’re trying to keep their economy afloat too, at least that’s the plan.

You say you don’t need to play the victim, and yet here you are complaining about Government not taking care of it’s own citizens, not providing adequate healthcare and housing and all the rest of it, with the idea that were it not for immigrants, Government could afford to provide a better standard of healthcare and housing and all the rest of it. Government CAN afford to do that, they just don’t want to. It’s not a question of lacking the funds to do it, it’s simply that they’re trying to squeeze the life out of every penny and they’re sure as hell not letting it drop.

I haven’t cared about politics in decades, I still don’t, so I don’t care what Government does or doesn’t do or what plans they do or don’t have, if you were actually interested in people on housing lists and hospital lists and all the rest of it, YOU’D be doing something about it, long before now, like most people do - they support the people they care about and the causes they care about. They don’t wait around for Government to get the finger out, because that’s not going to happen, no matter how much you want to use “our own citizens” as a means to berate people who aren’t opposed to supporting immigrants. It stands to reason that if you actually cared as much as you make out about “our own citizens”, they wouldn’t be in situations where they’re at the mercy of relying on the State to support them. They’re in that situation because most people don’t care about them, and only use them as a convenient excuse when they want to point out that Government shouldn’t be spending public funds supporting immigrants or supporting the things they’re opposed to.

But that’s no way to run a country, with the idea that just because anyone is a taxpayer it gives them more of a say in how the country is run than anyone else. That’s playing the victim, making out that anyone is a minority in their own country, as though they aren’t the main beneficiaries of publicly funded services themselves, with immigrants and people living in poverty being the least beneficiaries of publicly funded services -

Heatlth:

Non-native residents of Ireland born outside the UK were less likely to have attended a General Practitioner (Odds ratio (OR): 0.62 [95% Confidence Interval (CI): 0.51–0.74]; p<0.001) or consultant doctor (OR: 0.60 [95% CI: 0.47–0.76]; p<0.001) in the previous year, relative to Irish-born individuals. UK-born residents of Ireland displayed similar utilisation patterns to those of the native population in terms of GP visitation, but a higher likelihood of having attended a consultant (OR: 1.44 [95% CI: 1.14–1.816]; p = 0.004).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266662352100043X

Housing:

Nationality/race/ethnicity: Non-EU nationals are found to be at greater risk of over-crowding compared to others on the same income and with the same characteristics. The non-EU group also experiences higher levels of housing deprivation but this works through the pathway of low income. African migrants are also over-represented among the homeless. Concerning housing discrimination, while Asians and non-Irish White people are no more likely to report discrimination than White Irish nationals, we find that Black people and people of other ethnic groups are more likely to report discrimination.

https://www.ihrec.ie/app/uploads/2018/06/Discrimination-and-Inequality-in-Housing-in-Ireland..pdf

Education:

• Migrant-origin children were somewhat less likely than those with native Irish parents to have attended centre-based childcare at age three, prior to enrolment in the Early Childhood Care and Education Scheme (ECCE) scheme, but this varied widely by maternal country of birth. Centre-based care use at three was highest among mothers of Western European origin, and the lowest among mothers from Asia and Eastern Europe.
• Children with both parents (or lone parent) born abroad were more likely to attend a designated disadvantaged school (DEIS schools): 28 per cent compared to 20 per cent of children when both parents (or lone parent) are Irish-born and 17 per cent for those with one Irish-born parent and one parent born abroad.

https://www.esri.ie/news/new-research-finds-strong-progress-in-english-language-skills-among-children-of-migrant

The only difference between us appears to be that I don’t think it’s unfair on me to be expected to support people who have a lot less than I do, and a lot less opportunities to be in the be in the same position as we are, well, I dunno if your employer covers your medical insurance but mine does, and I’ve never had to worry about the cost of educating my child or the roof over my head. I’d also never claim to have done it all on my own, because I wouldn’t be in the position I’m in now had I not received support from other people, rather than being reliant on the State for support, or organisations that would refer to anyone in euphemistic, flowery language terms like “food bank clients”, or “food poverty” or “energy poverty”. It’s just poverty, plain and simple.

I worked in social care for the guts of 20 years and I’ve witnessed exactly the sort of behaviour that goes on, not among their “clients”, but among the people who are expected to provide care and services to the people who need it. It’s precisely for this reason that I don’t support those organisations any more, because they were often more concerned with supporting themselves than the people they were being expected to support and in receipt of public funding to do so. The vast majority of funding these organisations receive goes to funding themselves, ensuring that there is a constant supply of people who are actually in need of support but aren’t getting the support they need, not just in terms of financial support, but in terms of access to being able to participate as equals in Irish society and contribute to Irish society.

You’d know that too if you actually gave a shiny shyte about the people you claim the Government should care about, instead of just using those people to bolster your piss poor argument about the perceived detrimental impact of immigration on Irish society for Irish people.

They're recognised in international law as refugees, ie - once they meet the criteria to qualify for support from the State, they're not going to be stopped from entering the country. They're not the same status as immigrants who come here with their visas already in order. Although recently Government have decided to do something similar to what you're suggesting, and walked themselves into a whole other fun-filled shítstorm -

Referring to a statement issued by the Government following the Cabinet decision on Monday, Ms Gibney has asked the Minister to explain a line referring to “evidence that there may be abuse of such systems”.

“Can your department clarify what evidence there is for purported abuses and how prevalent such abuses are?” she wrote, adding that there were safeguards built into existing rules governing the returning of refugees to the place they first sought protection — known as the Dublin Convention — and immigration acts that were “designed to protect against the kind of abuse complained of”.

“Can you also clarify any additional protection this reservation will provide for the integrity of Ireland’s immigration system?” she wrote.

The Irish Times has sought detailed data on the matter from the department but none has been supplied.

The letter also accuses the Government of not actually providing a reason to the Council of Europe for its decision to temporarily suspend the provision. “While Ireland has entered its reservation to the Council of Europe, no reason is given. Can you clarify the formal reason for the Government’s decision for this reservation?” Ms Gibney asked.

Her letter outlines how she has spoken about “Ireland’s two-tier system”.

“The commission is concerned that this step widens the gap in provision between Ukrainian refugees arriving in the EU under the temporary protection directive, and those who seek and are granted international protection,” she wrote.

She is also seeking clarity on the data used to justify the decision, which cites figures from the Eurodac, a shared European fingerprint database, as evidence that some using the system to apply for protection here have been approved in another jurisdiction. However, the commission says its understanding is that the system records those who have applied for protection rather than those who have been accepted into another country’s system.

“We seek confirmation that these Eurodac figures relate solely to refugees (people who applied for and were granted international protection in other member states before coming to Ireland).”

Stripping visa-free travel rights from refugees will exacerbate ‘two-tier system’ in Ireland, says State watchdog – The Irish Times

How does any ordinary Joe Soap organise a protest of tens of thousands?

The same way anyone who actually wants to, organises a protest of thousands. If Margaret Cash was able to do it, anyone should -

Mum-of-seven Margaret Cash leads thousands in Raise the Roof housing rights march - Extra.ie

Thing is, we all know how that worked out for Ms. Cash - she was eviscerated on social media, the same way anyone else coming from her position would be, because nobody who's in that position is qualifying for sainthood any time soon. It's why when the CEO of a homeless charity I used work with got wind that I'd been homeless at one point in my life, and they asked me would I front a media campaign... I'd never laugh in anyone's face, I just told them go fcuk themselves.

I'm not in line for sainthood any time soon either, and I'm acutely aware that there are people who would be only too eager to play Inspector Clueless and rip my life to shreds in order to discredit any attempt to have the State provide support for people who need it. It's painting a target on their back - that's why you'd have to either be incredibly stupid, or eligible for sainthood before you'd go public like that. It's for this reason that people complain, but aren't willing to start a public protest. Understandable in all fairness why they wouldn't, so while I wouldn't be surprised by the number of people willing to attend a public protest, I also understand why the vast majority of people aren't willing to risk their lives being ripped apart in order to discredit them either.