Bring back the death penalty

You don't need to rely on Chinese statistics. Virtually every report from holiday/travel agencies paints China as being extremely safe.. and I can attest to that from living there myself. It is remarkably safe, with very little violent crime.

You also ignored Japan, who has a brutal prison system, and is one of the safest countries in the world. I take your point on Thailand.

I can't recall anyone doing so. I certainly haven't. However, when we have people with 200+ convictions walking around, there's definitely problems with our system. Also.. it's more about nipping the problem in the bud, before we end up like other countries with higher and more violent crime rates. It's simply easier to apply these measures before society/culture accepts it, than to fix it after the fact.

Nor does the more humane treatment of criminals.. if you want to apply the same logic.

There's little evidence of either system being better. That's the point I made earlier. Norway is a good example, but it's still an outlier. Just as I can point to Japan as being a similar outlier regarding harsher systems.

And when I use the term humane, I'm simply pointing to the manner in which prisons have become more comfortable, more helpful to prisoners, etc. The services provided to them have increased dramatically over the last few decades.

Honestly though, I don't think that harsh prisons is the answer. Practical, functional, basic. Yes. Harsh no. I do think all prisons should require inmates to work in a series of prison operated businesses, to help provide both skills to the prisoners, and to less the costs to the State. Prison should be somewhere that people really don't want to go to.. and as such, many of their rights as normal citizens should be suspended. No need to be harsh about it..

Nobody has countered the claim. You just keep repeating that statement. Posters point to Norway as if that's an indication that their views are better.. but... I can point to Japan, and claim the same.

The simple truth is that the evidence doesn't support either claim. The second important truth is that culture plays a huge role in all of this. Which is why Norway works so well, as it's a relatively ordered society with past social conditioning. The US doesn't because discrimination, race issues, gangs, etc are all strong factors that are well established. Japan works, again, because of it's unique culture.

What we have now doesn't work. That's the point. So what can we do that takes into account our own culture and provide an effective counter to criminals reoffending?

Now personally, as per the thread title, I do think capital punishment has some value for those with hundreds of convictions, or those seriously violent. It provides an obvious endgame for those who want to commit serious crime.. but for everyone else, there needs to be a prison system that works.. which we don't have.