Scottish independence

I've been to Scotland but I don't know how keenly defined their identity is.

However if it was as keenly defined as Irish identity don't you think they would have been driving for independence for centuries at this stage?

A poster here who I'd say is a well versed in the lie of the land in Scotland only recently said that Scottish identity right now would not be enough to deliver independence.

but Labour are on the same page as the Tories on a Scottish independence referendum

I think you'll find that Scotland's entry into the UK was very shady and marked by widespread bribery. So bad was the general reaction in Scotland that they they had to impose martial law on the country.

Ireland's entry into the UK a century later was equally nefarious and dodgy, marked by huge bribes to shameless characters on the Irish side. This was a deeply corrupt English regime.

True, and I think they will always be, but they are not a toxic as the Tories.

The toxity of the Tories is helping the SNP.

Indeed, there's no way anyone could mistake Scotland as an 'English region'. They are technically a different race to the English in that they are Celtic and not Anglo-Saxon and they mostly have Scottish surnames. They have a distinctive culture, much more developed than Wales for example (with the notable exception of language).

The waters are rather muddied by 'Scottish Unionists' though - a strange bunch of individuals who appear to be in denial of their own Scottishness, who deny that Scotland is a real country and who seem to be in love with right wing English nationalism. One gets the feeling that they don't even want Scotland to be a devolved administration and would much rather be run directly by Westminster.

They certainly don't strike me as particularly looking the same as people from the south of England anyway - lots of dark hair and some redheads but not so many blondes or fair haired people. I wouldn't be too hung up on genetics at all though, it's the cultural differences that are primarily driving forward the independence movement, a feeling that they are their own nation.

I feel Scotland should aim for the soft brexit approach. Change as little as is required immediately. The brexit vote could have been far less of a disaster if many of the politicians leading the leave vote had stayed true to pre referendum statements they made. Reduce the shock to the system caused by a leave vote and make slow changes as desired.

There is a financial risk but there is also one in staying. Currently Scotland is one of the few (only?) regions outside of London that have managed to keep an economy going under Westminster rule. Will they be able to keep this up permanently or end up crippled like Northern Ireland and staying simply because they have been reduced to depending on handouts?

They will never be respected in the UK. The current prime minister once stated a scot should not be prime minister which would see them as lesser than English if they are seen by some as unable to be in the highest political office in the land. Brexit was driven primarily (not only) by English nationalism. Not UK nationalism.

In my view, the whole 'join the EU' line should be removed from the debate on independence as that is a decision for another time. Importantly, the SNP should be saying it is up to the people in Scotland how they want Scotland to interact with the rest of the world and independence allows the people in Scotland to make their own choices. Staying in the UK gives that choice to the people in another country

A push for joining the EU can only happen when they become an independent state. Why would they muddy the water and overcomplicate indyref2 with talk of joining the EU. Why risk victory in the referendum over something they can't do anything about.

Realistically they'd join the EEA/EFTA first well before accession to the EU needs to come up. But again, that's only something independent sovereign nations can deal with.

I know that Unionists, just like yourself, love to to throw crap at the wall in the hope that that the repetition of the lies in 2014 works next time around, but there's no need for it on here.

Assuming there isn't an early election - again!

There was a set of new constituencies were due for the 2020 GE that didn't happen - there being 2017 and 2019 ones before it.

There is now a further new one; which leaves Scotland and Wales with more MPs than the last one did (still less than before); NI staying the same; and it only comes in to effect in July. An election before them will use the 2015 constituencies, again.

Indeed, this was just bandied about as rhetoric to encourage people to come out and vote.

The way the current unionists have seized on it to try and prevent a second referendum is disingenuous.