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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Energia have a 1.6GW wind turbine project in planning for off the waterford coast.

    SSE have an 800MW project a bit further to the east

    There is another project 'the Emerald' project seeking to build 1.3GW off the coast of Cork

    They would all have been able to generate substantial renewable wind on this day

    The UK had plenty of wind in the English channel and off the south west coast They too have multiple GW of wind installations in the pipeline for the english channel and the north east Celtic Sea.

    Wind power works best when there are interconnected grids that spread over a wide geographical area. Even on the calmest days, there are wind resources available offshore



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    It’s absolutely nuts that these lads can’t get this through their thick green tinted skulls!!

    Im all for renewable energy but it’ll be dead in the water if the lights go off due to inadequate storage and supplies of the transitional fuel- NG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Like they have so many times over the last three decades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Not to mention the fact that European countries do have gas storage, but the storage facilities are almost empty because the price of gas is so high, if they used the limited gas available to top up reserves, it would push the price of gas even higher

    And all that money goes to Putin so he can build missiles and bombs to murder civilians



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    when did the grid become 100% renewable ? There is a reason they did not go out. Say it with me 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    No wind

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    During WW2 all of the assets of the states involved in the war were diverted towards the war effort. There were blackouts and rations and millions of person hours were diverted to building tanks and planes and ammunition and supplying the logistics to support the troops

    People got by and when the war was over, things went back to normal.

    There is a war in Europe, and we're in a battle against time to prevent the worst effects of climate change. Because we didn't take this seriously for decades, we're now left with a much steeper transition curve. The point of a 'transition fuel' is that we use our existing gas infrastructure to keep us going while we build renewable infrastructure. If the transitional fuel becomes unreliable due to international geopolitics, the answer is not to invest in more gas infrastructure, it is to accelerate the transition to renewables.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    In another CRU report. Kinsale is gone.

    In the cold periods of January and December 2010 a combination of production and storage gas from Kinsale contributed 16% of Ireland total demand. Without this source of gas, the Moffat entry point would have been strained and unable to deliver the gas required to meet the demand



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It is a much different situation today. In the 1940s:

    1. The population levels were much lower than they are today.
    2. They could burn turf and coal and town gas to stay warm, they also had an exceptionally bad winter of 1946-47
    3. They could survive without electricity, at that time it mostly powered light bulbs and radios, the white goods (Fridges, washing machines, hoovers and many others) we take for granted today did not really gain traction until many years after the war.
    4. Most rural hoseholds could sustain themselves (just about) since the food they consumed came from local subsistence farming.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well many people don't agree with you that we should leave ourselves very exposed to the policy and needs of Britain. It's patently obvious that we need some form of backup generation facilities for when renewables can't deliver. That is prudent planning. So screw the ideology and let's get on with it.

    What's also been a shock recently is to hear of the large revenues being taken in by the wind energy business, since their contracts tie their price of electricity to the price of fossil fuel generation. These companies got subsidies via levies on our ESB bills, they have a minimum price below which they'll be further subsidised I hear in some/ most cases and then raking it in when fossil fuel prices are high. It's a win, win, win ,win for them. Who thought this was a good idea for the Irish consumer??? Did anyone think of the end consumer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The point I was making is that it didn't happen over the last three decades so its unlikely to start happening now.

    The point about building a massive gas storage facility is that it will inevitably lead to a LNG import terminal to diversify source of supply - which in turn will inevitably lead to importing American Fracked Natural gas - which would be effectively the same as keeping Moneypoint open indefinitely in terms of its overall climate impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Three times in the last year we had extended periods where renewables with installed capacity of 75% of our peak time requirements were supplying 6% and less of those requirements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I was discussing the times we ran out of gas supply (never). I was pointing out that we have managed without massive gas storage for sustained periods without consequences and the scenario has not significantly changed. We did have gas storage - and it was decomissioned because it wasn't economically viable or significantly used.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    We did not have so many data centres chomping on the Electricity then. Was there not warnings last year about power outages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Have you missed that 57% of our electricity supply is from gas, rising to well above that when three times in the last year renewables were adding practically nothing. Or that there is a European shortage of gas where there is every possibility that 75% of the gas we import may be cut off ?

    What do you propose we do then, sit in the dark and say a novena ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    LOL. Just when you think it cannot get any crazier, greens decide it`s a good idea to drive the bus off the edge of cliff.

    The do not like nuclear, but it`s fine if somebody else is doing the heavy lifting and you need it. The do not like LNG, another recognised transitional source, but even when somebody else has done the heavy lifting it`s not to be even considered.

    A bunch of hypocritical loonies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    As I also said gas storage will not solve our main supplier cutting us off - it will just delay the consequences a little.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    So why bother building interconnectors sure france could cut the electricity if they like. 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I actually have said - I don't think it will happen on either our gas supply or on the interconnects supply. It is you guys who are arguing from a catestrophic shut down scenario - not me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    You reckon it’s unlikely to start now?

    Right so you do know about the whole Russia invading Ukraine and Russia constraining and possibly turning off the supply of gas to the EU which in turn will have an effect on our supply that we get from Norway. Also factor in Mondale is done and corrib is heading on a downward trajectory in terms of supply.

    You have factored that in right, cause I’m pretty sure that didn’t happen in the last 30 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Called living in the real world. Your last answer was why bother it's only 30 days. Electricity no warning. So again whats the point of the interconnector if it's not guaranteed and just coming down the tracks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I know greens have a fixation with Armageddon, but we are not talking Armageddon.

    We are talking about gas reserves that would take us over the hump of a situation where the Moffat Lines were sending nothing through for a length of time. Similar to the 90 day reserves we have for fuel oils. LNG, had we a terminal or two, would further alleviate the problem.

    Small pennies in the context of the money that`s being thrown at renewables.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    Ireland's emissions 0.09%

    Even if ireland disappeared off the map it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

    What greens could be doing to make themselves usefull is setting up some sort of recycling scheme to deal with the plastic and rubbish that's fucked all over this country



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The Greens are a specialist interest group there are unredeemable, plastic & rubbish are an engineering problem like water and sewage and Greens are not engineers. Our problem is the establishment in Ireland represented by FF & FG need to grow a spine, the government needs to be dissolved and go to the country. It is unacceptable for them to endorse a policy that makes energy and food expensive and scarce, especially in light of light of impending mass famines across the globe. Not only that their actions are opening the door wide open for SF. The last thing I want is a woke national socialist party that will drag the country down faster. As a population we need to revoke the Lisbon treaty and the EU must revert back to a trading bloc. This does mean we will be tied closer to Britain, plus we have more shared interests in common with Britain than we do Brussels/Germany. Germany created their own 'green' mess, we don't need to be part of it. Whether we jump or are pushed we will eventually have to consider a future with a redefined decentralised EU, the green new deal power grab leads nowhere productive.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So nothing has changed in the last year?

    And anyone with half a brain would realise we should store NG on the island of Ireland just in case.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I’m fine with that.

    It will allow people 30 days to source wood and coal to burn to keep warm and gas stoves to cook on.

    What a **** up our energy policies have become.



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