Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

There are some limits apparently. I heard an EI A321LR pilot tell ATC they were unable to depart from 28L with current conditions on one of the hot days a few weeks ago. Air temp was about 30c and wind was I think 6kts with max 9kts gusting from South East. Aircraft had to exit the runway threshold as it was no1 to depart, in order to allow other aircraft depart.

The issue there is ATC trying to stick with 28L as its operationally better for flow but with a tailwind. Aircraft depart and land into the wind to maximise performance, taking a tailwind hurts performance badly

Limit on the A320 is 10knots so that A321 departure was very close to limit before working the math on how much more runway needed

In the vast majority of airports around the world they do not normally operate their runways with a tailwind. DUB is different but will switch to 10R when the tailwind approaches maximum limits whereas other airports will often switch over well in advance of the wind actually becoming a tailwind. However the problem with DUB is that this process is unpredictable. There are days when the tailwind is nowhere near max limits but they have already switched onto 10R and then other days when it is howling a gale up the chuff and ATC refuse to switch over. Therein lies the problem - because its unpredictable airlines don't/can't plan on making tech stops in SNN which are inefficient, but usually if they wait around long enough or complain to ATC enough eventually they will open 10R. Hopefully with about 500m more runway on 28R, this problem will be much less severe when that opens.

There was a conversation between airline ops and ATC (not over VHF) so we are not privy to that. A tech stop when the airport infrastructure is actually capable of facilitating operation of the direct flight woukd no doubt introduce a range of new issues and potential for delays. It would also set an undesirable precedent from the airline's point of view. They were right to press for the runway change IMO.

I think the point Brendan is that the aircraft can depart from the airport and there is no reason why it can’t it’s just because the runway in use (28L with a small tailwind) is operationally easier for ATC and managing flow. Hence the need for to request them tow swap the runway and the aircraft is back within limits and can depart safely.

It should never be an issue.

That would always be the airline’s priority. However, they would do a tech stop if it wasn’t possible and take less fuel. This happens the odd time ex Lanzorote and they usually stop at Faro en route.

Again, this shouldn’t be needed for DUB if they used the more suitable runway for the departing aircraft that are close to limits.

You also see when 16 is in use a request for 10R for that extra bit of length.

I was told that this is an AIRLINE request as it saves the AIRLINES fuel landing on 28 rather than flying all the way to 10 even with a tailwind.

Also the preferential runway system is a DAA policy and it will be to fit in with planning and being a good neighbour to those that live in Malahide etc.

As far I am aware the use of the northern runway for departures is limited to just that of exceptional circumstances such as a disabled aircraft on the southern or the southern runway is closed for urgent repairs.

Interesting about the limited circumstances for use of 10L for departures. In reality, 10L/R will only be used in cases of a reasonably strong headwind from the east and this, coupled with generally better performance off 10R than 28L (due to obstacle issues with 28L), 10R won't be too much of an issue for heavy widebodies or A321LRs. They are managing OK with 10R when it needs to be used as it stands now anyway.

But sorry, ATC's job is to facilitate the safe execution of the flight but the last word falls with the crew. A crew does not have to comply with an ATC order if the safety of the flight is at risk. The fact that the plane is on the ground waiting to take off is neither here nor there, if the crew say they need X runway to ensure the safety of the flight then they need X runway and ATC must facilitate. Yes, it means a headache for them reorganising traffic but they shouldn't be using a runway with a tailwind anyway.

And they are in indeed getting that extra 70% of the time.

It’s a policy that has been derived out of the planning restrictions.

So let’s make sure our ire is directed at the correct people and that arguments are fact based.

This may refer to EI117 to Washington on 19th July operated by an A321LR.

It taxyed out about 13.20 but was unable to depart from 28L due to current weather conditions. It exited from the holding point of 28L to the parallel taxiway where it sat for some considerable time before returning to stand at T2.

The flight was not cancelled but eventually pushed back again that evening at about 19.00 and this time was allowed to depart from 10R.

New boards is not used friendly.

Should read

Runway in use is the one currently been used and suits most operations

In those kind of operations would you not just go to Shannon from 28L , take on fuel there and then do the oceanic bit ?

The trouble is that on certain days the wind can be quite variable changing directions quite quickly and often.

At a busy airfield like Dublin swapping runways frequently is not ideal as delays will build up.

With the North runway coming into play, the issues highlighted will mostly die away.

You are entitled to your view, but for over 40 years Aer Lingus had to deal with a mandatory stop at Shannon on transatlantic flights. That now, thankfully, being in the past I doubt the airline considers it appropriate or necessary to maintain contingency plans for such stops on a day-to-day basis. Obviously an in-flight emergency would be a different matter.

That’s really a matter for the airline to decide on the day.

You are not going to get a clear reply here.

It’s an internal decision for Aer Lingus to make.