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2022 DCM Novice Thread

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    #302
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Sorry for the late update (lots going on at the moment!)

    WEEK 6😀

    After this week we will be 1/3 of the way through the plans - the time really is racing by. Well done on getting this far - week 5 saw many of you running distances you've never ran before - super stuff! I'm pleased to see that most of our advice regarding pacing and training is sinking in - you are training for a marathon and yes it is hard work and requires sacrifice, but it will be worth it.

    I just want to highlight a couple of great posts I found from the year I trained for my 1st marathon. This one from Fusitive regarding consistent and sensible training was very informative, and this one from KSU is something that we will come back to in the months ahead, but just stick it in the back of your mind for now.

    Finally in our week 5 recap:

    - Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

    - Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?

    - Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?

    And onto week 6:

    Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday

    HHN1|rest|3m easy|5m easy|3m easy|rest|7m lsr|cross

    Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|5m easy|1m w/u + 5m pace + 1m c/d|3m rec|rest,cross or 3m rec|16m lsr|rest,cross or 3m rec


    This week is a step-back week for the HH followers, with the LSR a paltry 7 miles 

    Weeks like this are dotted throughout the plans, usually every third week. These weeks are a very important part of a training block, as they allow us to refresh before the next increase in mileage.

    For the Boards crew there is a slight increase in mileage this week, with the LSR out to 16 miles. Note that the midweek run is 5 miles at PMP, plus a mile each of warm-up and cooldown. Please keep PMP (and all training paces) realistic and in line with current fitness.

    Well done to everyone so far with some great training being done, you should be very proud of the hard work & commitment you have put in so far!! Very best of luck with this weeks training 😊



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    #303
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411084#Comment_119411084

    Well done on another good week!

    I usually do my strides during my warm up or at the end of my run depending on the run but it doesn't really matter if you want to them during it, I suppose whatever works best for you.

    Well done on getting your longest run done, it's normal to have been feeling tired as your body would not be used to running this distance. The long runs are the perfect opportunity for everyone to practice your race day routine. So everything from your meal the night before, breakfast that morning, clothing, shoes and fuelling should be practiced. By the time the race comes around you should have everything well practiced.



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    #304
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413428#Comment_119413428

    Well done on another good consistent week. Great to see the advice on the strides helped you, I love feeling so controlled & concentrating on my form doing them. I too have been stocking up on the protein milk & craving it before the ends of my longer runs. I need to start taking my own advice here to be practicing my hydration & gels intake on my longer runs. I will have to get myself over to decathlon to purchase one of those flasks & a belt too!

    very best of luck with the week ahead😊



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    #305
    AntrimGlens
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭AntrimGlens


    Well done all on the week past. Week 7 done for me.

    Monday - 5k easy

    Tuesday - S&C, rolling work

    Wednesday - 1 mile w/u, 5 mile tempo @ 7.15 min/mile 1 mile c/d

    Thursday - rest

    Friday - 2 mile w/u 1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1 min hard intervals (6 min mile pace) with same recovery in between, 2 mile c/d

    Saturday - didn't get out!

    Sunday - LSR 17 miles @ 8.42 min/miles - 2hrs 27min

    Felt good this week, probably the strongest I've felt in a long time hence why I pushed on Fridays session to see how I went. LSR went well, hadn't planned to do any miles @ pmp but miscalculated the distance so had to push the last 5 miles up towards pmp to get to my sons hurling matches in time.

    Took a couple of Blok chews and a gel on the run, the chews are a bit too big and disrupt my breathing, will have to look at the Gatorade chews as i found them a decent size previously. Need to invest in a pair of shorts for marathon day that have gel pouches at the sides/thighs, was struggling to get the zip open on the back of my shorts to get the gel out whilst running so ended up stopping to do it.

    Definitely feeling recovery is much quicker than previous blocks LSR's, they would have taken a lot out of me. I got my wife to bring a cool box full of ice to my sons match yesterday morning and I stood in it for half an hour watching his games, just to keep my achilles and plantar fascia iced. I'm sure there were a few looks in my direction, but I couldn't care so long as it gets me to the start line.

    total weekly mileage - 36 miles /5.05 hrs running

    week ahead - I have a club 5K time trial on wednesday, but will incorporate it into a longer run and will step back Sundays long run to about 12 miles.



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    #306
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415117#Comment_119415117

    Some interesting sessions there. I note from earlier your goal marathon time is 3:45. Can I ask where you are getting the 'tempo' pace from, and what was the goal of the session? Tempo runs are not something we've discussed much here, and the definition can vary from plan to plan. How did that session feel? And what about the interval reps - that's a pretty tough looking session too. I would have a slight concern that some of your sessions are based on an aspirational marathon pace, rather than aligning the training with your current fitness. But I could be wrong! That time trial next week will give you a good indicator of where you're at right now.



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    #307
    Dublinlad1989
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Dublinlad1989


    Bit of a late update on my week but here we go

    Monday - 5km @ 5.49 per KM

    Tuesday - 8KM - @5.59 per KM

    Wednesday - 5km @ 5.51 per km

    Thursday - Rest

    Friday - 16km @6.20 per KM

    Saturday - Rest

    Sunday - Rest

    Overall a pretty good week, i would have liked to get another short run in but my wife was away for the weekend so daddy day care was in full swing but I made sure to get my LSR in on the Friday.

    - Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

    Yes completed all runs as per the plan. I've switched some of the days of my runs but thats because i have to be in the office on a thursday so it suits to do mon-wed instead of tue-thurs.

    - Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?

    yes all runs at pace and pretty much what i was aiming for before going out. There were no runs that felt tough this week.

    - Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?

    I think with the 5km runs i'm just naturally going a little bit faster than i should be. The pace feels really comfortable but i can see it getting faster so main focus this week is to slow down more on the shorter runs. I'm probably running some of the 5km at MP.

    Overall i'm feeling really good and i've really started to enjoy running again, for the first time in months the runs don't seem like a chore and I want to get out as much as possible (while sticking to the plan)



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    #308
    memaul
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭memaul


    Hi All,


    I was looking a few weeks ahead on both plans and see there is a 10 mile race scheduled on week 8. I found the Wild Atlantic 10 Miler is on in Ballina that same weekend. Might suit some of you that are located in the West. I just signed up.



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    #309
    winstonia
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭winstonia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414817#Comment_119414817

    Nevermind, looking at the wrong plan.

    Post edited by winstonia on


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    #310
    AntrimGlens
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭AntrimGlens


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415543#Comment_119415543

    Hi Murph_D - thanks for taking the time to reply and for the advice.

    I love your use of the words "interesting sessions", when what you really mean is WTF! I get it. I'm probably a bit all over the place with this marathon block training, doing too much speed work. My training is totally built around an aspirational time, my reckoning is that the more effort I put in the easier it will feel on the day, which I recognise is the converse of what I should be doing.

    The tempo run came about just because I had concerns about my heart rate being elevated during what I perceived should have felt like easier runs, so I wanted to get an idea of how I could handle a steady run at a quicker pace. The pace is where I felt I could hold it for the 5 miles and I felt fine during and afterwards, could have held it for another couple of miles but there was no real goal as such. The interval session is one that my club coach included in my plan, albeit not to be done two days after the tempo run. My bad there.

    I've had a look again at the Boards Plan and my biggest worry is that I think that I need to be getting up to about 45+ miles per week, whereas it maxes out at 40. If I was to go with the Boards Plan could I increase the mileage of some of the easy runs from say 4 up to 6 or 3 up to 5? Are these deliberately set at these low mileages or can they be increased, or could I increase the mileage of some of the warm ups and cool downs?

    The last training block I did had me doing 45+ miles per week from week 8-14 at a fairly fast pace and my body was able to handle it fairly well. If I was to reduce the pace for the remaining weeks and increase the mileage up to 45+ do you think it would be detrimental?

    I'll do the 5K TT tonight and report back. Apologies for taking up your time, but as you're figured out I could do with the guidance and advice. Thanks



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    #311
    fatboyfin
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭fatboyfin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414817#Comment_119414817

    Turns out... consistency is key Laineyfrecks! Great advice, and thanks for highlighting that post from Fusitive - brought back fond memories rereading the thread, but importantly was crucial for my training that I took it onboard.



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    #312
    Lambay island
    Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119423063#Comment_119423063

    😀

    If you do switch it up the boards plan, you clearly have a solid base and experienced higher volume weeks in the past. In your case, I think you could add easy miles here and there at the beginning or end of a run or occasionally add an extra run some weeks once you do reduce pace. If you are to switch, i would advise to try and keep to the plan as best as you can. i.e, ensure you are having recovery time and not potentially doing harder days to close together. Good luck with the TT and report back.



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    #313
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418109#Comment_119418109

    Good stuff on getting the runs done. I know you probably feel like I am going on & on but I think you still really need to slow down. The only person that will benefit from slowing down is you. Even if your current fitness was equating to a 4hr marathon you would still be running too fast. Your current race times don't equate to a 4hr marathon so it is best for you to train accordingly. Your next race will obviously tell us more & we can adjust your paces accordingly but for now I'd slow the paces down.

    Best of luck with this weeks training😊



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    #314
    killiank
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭killiank


    Hi,

    I hope I am not too late to be joining the group. I have been doing my own training in recent weeks on my own & haven't had anyone to bounce a few questions off or to see how anyone else is getting on. Just reading through other peoples posts has answered a lot of them. I have been following a plan which although not exactly the same as the boards one is pretty similar.

    • Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

    One Marathon (Dublin 2019) 4.28

    Most of my PB'S on any other distance would be from quite a number of years ago & Id be nowhere near them now. Would only give a false indication of where I am.

    I'd expect to be running the 1/2 marathon just under 2 hours whereas my PB from 9 years ago is 1.42. So that's a big drop down & I cant see myself getting close to that again.

    • How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

    Currently doing 4/5 runs a week. One long run a week (23km last weekend) & 3/4 runs of around 10km. Judging from the comments on the times I would say I need to slow the pace of the runs down.

    My normal 10km run I would be doing at 5.10 approx per KM although since following the thread I've reduced down to 6.00 per KM.

    For the days when I am not running I am just resting.

    • What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

    Goal is to break 4 hours but I cant see myself doing it this year. I was 4.28 in my first effort in 2019 so if I can get down to 4.14 (halfway) this time around I1ll be very happy & hopefully come back in 2023 to go for the 4 hour mark. I ended up walking a little in 2019 so I want to avoid that this time around.

    • How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

    I'm following a plan very similar to Boards one. Its from a book that my wife bought for me. I am training 4/5 days a week. Hoping to keep up 5 days.

    • What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

    Biggest worry is that injury will get in the way. Have had some issues with my ankles & hips since I started the training. A few days off & I've been good to go again.

    • Why are you running this marathon?

    I am 42 & carrying too much weight. I'm 5.10 & currently 93kgs. I tend to get very busy around this time of the year workwise & usually when that happens my diet & exercise go out the window. In simple terms I know I have no choice but to do the work & it keeps me focused. All that said I love getting out running with my earphones on - especially the early mornings at the weekend. I really enjoyed the 2019 marathon even though the last few kms were not pleasant for me & I'm looking forward to getting the buzz again on the day.



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    #315
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424621#Comment_119424621

    It's never too late to join in especially as you have been following along. Welcome killiank!

    Good to see you are following a plan & running consistently. As we have no current races to base your fitness off, even running 6km easy is too fast for a 4:14 target marathon, I would advise you to slow down some more😉 There are pace calculators in some of the previous posts. Also do you have any races lined up, then we would be better equipped to see where your current fitness is.

    You mention some issues with your hips & ankles, is this something you had before? It's something I would watch going forward. Getting to the start line injury free is the main goal so with sensible & consistent training that will hopefully happen.

    All I will say about being busy is that we all are but you have to decide how much you want this & make those few sacrifices, consistency is key to training for a marathon.

    I have to agree there's nothing like the buzz of running a marathon 😊

    Very best of luck with your training!



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    #316
    l3m0n5
    Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭l3m0n5


    Late with week 5 update

    Couldn't do the long run until the Bank hol Monday. I did a slightly longer run on the Friday as I knew I wouldn't get the lsr done until Monday.

    Mon 7,0 km 43:27 6:13/km

    Wed 10,4 km 1:04:11 6:10/km

    Thu 6,5 km 41:21 6:25/km

    Fri 8,0 km 50:02 6:14/km

    Sun 4,0 km 26:27 6:35/km

    Mon 24,2 km 2:40:03 6:37/km

    For this week its a bit compressed (Tue - Sun) so will do 4 runs



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    #317
    AntrimGlens
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭AntrimGlens


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415543#Comment_119415543

    So I did the 5K TT last night, did on my own as I couldn't do it at club training time finishing in 20.31. Probably could have shaved a few seconds off it had I someone to catch, but there was nothing left in the tank at the end. Happy enough, but probably still leaves me looking at a >3.45 marathon time so I'll see how the ten mile race goes at the end of the month, although it is a fairly tough and hilly course.

    So I did 6 miles this morning @ easy pace, bang on 9.30min miles. Is that where I should be aiming my shorter easy paced runs and my LSR's even slower around 9.45min miles?

    Thanks guys.



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    #318
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415543#Comment_119415543

    20:31 is an excellent 5k. TTs are not a perfect science (course measurement, no competition etc) but it gives you a good general estimate of what you might do in an actual race. That time indicates a potential marathon a good deal faster than 3:45 but as it is your debut it's always fair enough to be conservative. My advice would be to stick to 3:45 training pace at the moment and perhaps adjust after the 10 mile race if necessary. That means a marathon pace of 8:35, easy runs at 9:20-9:35. Your long runs would generally be in that easy range and can be a little slower if you are feeling tired - however I think with your potential you will be fine to stay in that easy range for now for the LRs, towards the slower end of it perhaps.

    By the way this morning's run, the day after a race/TT should have been at recovery pace - which should be at the very slowest end of easy pace or even slower. (We haven't talked a lot about recovery runs, but these are slow very easy runs the day after a hard session. You actually can't do these TOO slowly - it should be at a pace that feels 'restorative', and should not exceed 40 or 50 minutes for most novice marathoners.)

    Good work on the TT. Keep to those paces and perhaps re-evaluate after the 10 mile race at the end of the month, which could yield a very decent result if you keep training appropriately.

    Post edited by Murph_D on


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    #319
    Laineyfrecks
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426972#Comment_119426972

    Well done on the TT, great time, will be great to see how you get on in the 10mile race!

    As always @Murph_D has given some great advice which I would completely agree with. Train sensibly & hopefully you will reap the rewards on the day😊



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    #320
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    As above and the advice given but that 5km TT would translate on paper to 3:17:29 according to Vdot. 3:45 should be well within your reach depending on how your body handles going up the miles.



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    #321
    Meanman
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Meanman


    Long time viewing seldom posting


    Hope to do a sub 4hr. DCM Marathon using the HH plan. So today was my 7 mile pace day. Pace was 9.40 per mile. Is that too slow at this stage to get sub 4hr DCM?


    thanks for all the great posts with so much info.



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    #322
    Sammy2012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Just wondering what to do when life gets in the way of running. I am away on hols at the moment and will fit in my 4 runs this week. Was too lazy to go this morning for lsr but will head off early in the morning. And will fit in my shorter runs next week but I won't have time to so my lsr at the weekend. Should I just scrap it and just continue with plan the following week or should I try make up the miles elsewhere? There is a chance I'll be able to do as shorter run than the one on the plan so if I do that would that be okay?



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    #323
    Lambay island
    Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432505#Comment_119432505

    Hi,

    Just to be clear it was a 7 mile LSR(long slow run) on the plan for HH this week. Is this what you are referring to as opposed to running a pace you would run a 7 mile race at?

    9.40 as a LSR seems too quick for an easy run as Marathon pace for a 3.59 marathon is 9.09 mile pace.. Your easy pace should be 60-90 seconds slower. I probably need more context here in terms of where you are to give a fully accurate answer.



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    #324
    Lambay island
    Registered Users Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Lambay island


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119437121#Comment_119437121

    Life can get in the way alright. Its part and parcel training for all of us really. There will be runs missed or swapped out some weeks.

    Holidays can certainly be an added challenge too. I would advise to do your best not to miss the long run. These are the runs that will prepare you best for DCM.

    Just a thought - Is it possible to even get up just that it bit earlier one day during week and do the LSR then(even if its a little shorter )? Missing other runs are not as integral and will happen from time to time. If you manage to do that you can then have a rest day after and you dont have the weekend LSR hanging over you for rest of week/holiday.

    If it turns out you can't, don't chase miles the following week, forget about it and continue as per the plan.

    Enjoy the rest of your holiday!



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    #325
    MisterJinx
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭MisterJinx


    Week 6 update.

    Had a busy week this week and the hardest week so far on the training plan. Easy Monday, Wednesday, PMP session on Thursday, missed Fridays run and LSR today. Feel bad about missing the run on Friday but I was mentally tired from the week and just couldn't face it. Wednesday run was a bit meh but I suppose that happens, just didn't feel all that easy or comfortable even though pace and HR were in about the right place.

    LSR today was fine, did start to feel it in the legs after about 22k but otherwise fine.

    So a couple of questions. I've really been trying to keep the pace down and running with my wife when possible to help with that. Those paces would be recovery paces in reality, is that an issue, if I'm going 60/90 or even more that that slower than PMP?

    Second question is that I'm struggling a bit to find pmp effort. The pmp paces to date have been a bit all over the shop. I though I would have a good feel for it now but I don't seem to have figured it out. Tried my pmp session this week using HR are keeping in the 150s which would be z3 aerobic but it spiked after taking a hill too quickly and never returned back there and stayed in low 160s. Any advice on how to get a better idea of the effort for MP? My half and 5k times would suggest below 5m/k for pmp.



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    #326
    Sammy2012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440639#Comment_119440639

    Thanks for the tip Lambay! I got all my runs in this week. Was up at 730 this morning, before the day got too warm and was all done before 9am. Plan has changed now for next week so should be able to get my lsr in now next Sat. 3 more holiday runs to complete this week before we head home but the temps won't be much different here to home now so won't be too bad. Altho I'm glad I'll be home for my long run as the route I'm doing is much flatter at home.


    Just an update on this week's running. Did Tuesdays run on Monday 5k @5.42 pace

    Wednesday 8.1k @6.45pace (first holiday run and it was hot, hot, hot)

    Thursday 5k @6 minute pack

    Sunday 11.1k@6.16pace


    Happy with how the week has gone due to eating and drinking every night. Hopefully next week will go as well!



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    #327
    Meanman
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Meanman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440601#Comment_119440601

    Thanks for feedback. If I am doing a 7ml pace next weekend will I be doing it at the pace I would do a full Marathon (i.e. 9.09ml pace) in the hope that I will do a sub 4 hour marathon. Tks



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    #328
    Murph_D
    Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441447#Comment_119441447

    Well, where did you get the 4 hour target from? Have you raced before? What kind of times have you run for other distances in the past while?

    Also, where is this 7 mile 'pace' run coming from? What plan have you been following so far?



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    #329
    Adiaga 2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Adiaga 2


    Week 6 done!

    Monday 5km easy pace 5:58 / km

    Tuesday 8km easy pace 6:02 / km

    Wednesday 2km WU 8km PMP 1km CD

    Friday 26km LSR pace 6:22 / km

    Saturday 5km rec 6:39 / km

    Overall the week went well enough. Had to switch days around a little - friday for LSR. The long run felt a lot better this week. I think a much nicer route and lovely weather helped. Treviso posted last week that chocolate milk and a banana are a good post-LSR fuel option, well I can vouch for that! I think that will be my carrot for the next long run! Like MisterJinx above, the PMP run could have gone a bit better. I felt my effort for the pace section was fairly consistent but the splits were very up and down. Overall, I think my average pace for the 8km was about where I wanted - late 5:30s. I think for this week, I'll do the PMP section on a straight, flatish stretch and just do lengths. See how that works out. As always, any tips and advice are most welcome! :)



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    #330
    Dublin334
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Dublin334


    Week 6 Update

    All runs went according to plan. Observations below on the 2 more interesting runs were

    5m @PMP - ran at 8:45 /mile

    I was surprised that I found this pace a struggle. Earlier in the year my normal running pace would have been 8:00 /mile and I assumed I would find the pace easy but I don't think I would have been able to continue at that pace for much longer. I will slow it down to 09:00 - 09:10 this week to see how this feels.


    16m LSR - ran at 09:55 / mile

    The pace and distance were OK but I did find my legs really stiff and sore for the last few miles. Still walking with stiff legs 2 days later so perhaps I need to get into an ice bath of the Irish sea after the Long Runs to try and ease the muscles.



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    #331
    AntrimGlens
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭AntrimGlens


    Week 8 completed for me. Half way point now and all going well.

    Monday - 8 mile recovery @ 9.49 min mile.

    Tuesday - S&C

    Wednesday - 2 mile w/u, 5K TT, 2 mile c/d (5K time 20.31)

    Thursday - 6 mile easy @ 9.30min mile

    Friday - rest

    Saturday - LSR 19 miles @ 9.20min mile

    Sunday - 5 mile recovery @ 9.36 min mile

    Weekly mileage 45 miles

    Time on legs - 7hr 03min

    Took the mentors advice and tried to slow down my LSR - deliberately chose a route with a 4 mile gradual climb to keep me in check. Finished the run singing along to myself as I felt that I never even got out of second gear, could have ran another 7 miles at that pace. Body felt fine afterwards and legs weren't tired at all. Took a 500ml pouch with me for water and drank it all, only ate the one chew, took no gels with me.

    Didn't get a bike session in as I had to switch my LSR from Sunday to Saturday. Need to try and get some more sleep, probably only getting 5-6 hours a night at the minute and this mornings run was more effort than it should have been. Physio appointment this Wednesday for a much needed rub down.



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