Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

When this attack happened for reason of propaganda it was reported as occupied . What has since emerged the hospital was not occupied .

Good news for a change.

ISTANBUL — A Panama-flagged ship carrying 33,000 tons of Ukrainian corn arrived on Saturday in Istanbul from the Ukrainian port of Odesa en route to Ireland.

Under the recent Turkish-brokered grain deal, Navistar has to undergo inspection at the Istanbul Joint Coordination Center (JCC) before setting sail to its destination, according to Turkiye's Anadolu Agency (AA).

Two more ships carrying grain and foodstuffs set out from the Ukrainian ports, AA reported, citing a statement from the National Defense Ministry.

The second ship, Malta-flagged Rojen, left the port of Chornomorsk with 13,000 tons of grain for the UK, the ministry said.

The third ship, Turkiye-flagged ship Polarnet, which was waiting at the port of Chornomorsk, sailed to the Karasu port in northwestern Turkiye. The ship, which is carrying 12,000 tons of grain, reaches Karasu.

Both ships will also be inspected by a joint team in Istanbul, it added. — Agencies

What loaded? It's a fact.

The whole EU has been at war with Russia since 2012. Hybrid war, a disinformation war (a very soft term). Which continues in much higher intensity since March 2022. Since then we're technically further than the hybrid war. It's worse than the Cold War, from Kremlin side is definitely a war, it might not be an open war from the EU for strategic reasons but it's a war indeed...

I'm not sure what sources you use to arrive at such an opinion. The uncomfortable truth is that Putin and his government are widely supported in Russia even after 6 months of war. Inflation is stable, Food is on the shelves, Energy costs are obviously not an issue and the sanctions have had little to no effect on the average Russian.

In fact there is a general opinion that Putin is a bit too moderate and is more pro Europe than he should be. Even Medvedev is more hawkish than Putin these days.

That's a hell of a lot of quite well educated people to brainwash. 140 Million in fact. Not sure they would agree with your sweeping generalisation of their gullability.

You don't have to brainwash them all, and I never said that. Get 60% or so on your side, plus draconian laws (15 years for referring to "the war") and you have it game, set and match, at least for the moment.

Usually around 35% is enough to take over and destroy democracy. Intimidate the remaining 65%. Hitler won the 1933 election with 33% and that was sufficient to grab the power.

Similarly, the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia won 36% in a democratic free election in 1946 (actually the only country where the Communists got into the power by democratic means) and that was sufficient to get a complete control by February 1948 by infiltrating all state apparatus with Bolsheviks and KGB agents.

United Russia party first election win was just 38%. Which allowed them to consolidate power by various means etc.

Democracy is really fragile to populist extremist movements and this is extremely important to remember with regards to Russian troll meddling and information war where the Russian propaganda machine supports exact these destructive parties and trends in the EU and elsewhere (Brexit, Trump etc). We see it unravelling even in this thread. We are at war indeed.

I do disagree. I think the vast majority are not brainwashed at all. I think we in the west view the Russian and Chinese populations as ignorant, subservient prisoners of totalitarian governments who if given the choice would overthrow their governments instantly. We ignore the fact that culturally and politically they think very differently to us. Anecdotally when I lived with Chinese people in London I was taken aback myself at how proud they were of their communist government and its capitalist economy. These were young, highly educated and intelligent people with good jobs in the city of London whom I would have expected to hate their authoritarian leaders.

Individualism and liberal ideals are just not as important to Russian & Chinese cultures as they are to us in the west in my opinion. They care more about stability and economic security than having a choice between two parties who pretend to be different than each other but are pretty much the same. Like FF/FG, Democrats/Republicans, Tories/Labour etc. And as CDQ said earlier this allows their leaders to be more confident so that they can make decisions that aren't based on looking good for the elective beauty contest that comes up every couple years. I wouldn't like that way of being ruled but I'm not from there. But if I was to bet my house on a game of chess between Xi/Putin and Stuttering Biden/Bumbling Boris I know who I'd put my money on to win. And If your honest you would do the same. Democracy seems to be in a dismal state these days if Biden and Johnson are the best that the free world can come up with.

In answer to your second question I think the Russians understand why the war is happening. They and their government had been warning the west since 2008 that Ukraine should always remain neutral and any attempt to subsume such a unique country into NATO would lead to catastrophic consequences. Just as the Americans would understand why it would be happening if the Chinese were building military bases on the border of Mexico and treating ethnic americans in that area as second class citizens and bombing them for 8 years. The US has the Monroe Doctrine which basically says that no large foreign nuclear power can have a military base in the entire western hemisphere as that is America's hemisphere and they reserve the right to go to war with anyone who tries. How is that fair?

Apart from the Chechen soldier who should be locked up forever for his treatment of the POW I really don't agree that they are indiscriminantly bombing civilians either. And nether does Amnesty it seems.

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