2022 DCM Novice Thread

In Regards to your first question, I don't see any issue with that at all, if anything it might prove to be more beneficial as the miles tick over with less effort used and company is always good IMO.

Leaving HR aside for the minute, when you are basing the PMP off your half pace, how are you actually feeling when in the thick if it? A hill will always affect your HR and its also been warm out. If continuing the PMP after the hill, I would consider it normal that the HR may not come back down. I'd be all for incorporating hills in training but might be worth trying a flat section for this week's PMP effort to see how you get on. Are you working between a range? no harm in slowing down on climbing sections leaning towards the slower side of that range.

Around this stage cumulative/training fatigue may kick in now and again. You have been upping your mileage week on week for 6 weeks now. You might find the exact opposite this week or next when you are bouncing about. - the nature of marathon training. Its only natural for your body to feel tired. Your target is 4 hrs right? no harm at all slowing the PMP a bit when the body is calling for it. Recover, Rest and rehydrate are your friends now.

Thanks Lambay, it is nice having the company for the runs when it works out so if it's no issue we'll keep it up when the opportunity arises.

In terms of the PMP, it has really depended on the run itself, I've done a couple in really hot weather away and the other on a lumpy route, perhaps as you say it would be best to try this weeks one on a flatter course and try and get the feel for it there, but it's going to be hot again this week!! Yes I'm giving myself a range to work off, somewhere between 4:45 and 5 m/k with 4:45 being quite ambitious and just under 5 being a realistic target for a first marathon.

Update for the week:

Monday - 10k @ 6per k/m

Tuesday - 7.5k total, quick warm up followed by 15 set of 60secs on/off, Efforts at 4min per k/m

Wednesday - had a GAA match, only played half and took it fairly handy. Not ideal from marathon perspective but committed to the season with the team before I got a late marathon entry so need to stick it out

Thursday - 8km total, 2k warm up followed by 6km tempo, probably went too fast for a tempo to be honest but felt good at the time

Saturday - 25km LSR. This one was tough going. Once I got to about 16km I felt quite leggy and was a bit of a grind to push through. Disappointing as the prior weeks LSR felt good but I know I made mistakes a few schoolboy errors this time and didn't prep properly. Little/no water during the run, no gels etc..

Sunday - 7.5k recovery run at 6:20ish. Handy stroll around the place.

Overall happy enough with the week, will learn my lessons from the LSR prep (or lack thereof) and better to find that out now than further down the line. Any recommendations on gels/electrolyte tabs etc.. please feel free to share.

Update for the week

Tue 5,6 km 36:04 6:27/km

Thu 12,3 km 1:12:12 5:53/km -- PMP splits - 5:53/6:08/6:00/5:46/5:44/5:33/5:21/5:09 -- Last 2 k got a bit carried away but was nice to stretch the legs out.

Sat 26,1 km 2:49:00 6:28/km -- This went better than last weeks LSR, brought extra water with me on this and it probably helped.

Sun 5,5 km 35:01 6:21/km

A I did last weeks LSR on Monday I ended with 74km for the week well above what I've peaked at before. Legs are feeling tired so a normal week will do them good.

Hope no one minds a graduate of Mr G’s 2019 thread popping in to ask a couple of questions. I’m doing DCM ‘22 and following along with the HHN1 plan. I chose the plan over Boards plan (which I followed in ‘19) based on the fact that I really had no base to speak of coming into this training block as was a bit of a lapsed runner. I’m effectively a novice (in fact looking at the novices’ experience this year very much a novice!) but enjoying the HHN1 plan so far. I am aware that coming in without a base isn’t a great idea but managing the increased mileage without too many niggles just yet and goal is really just to complete the marathon again regardless of pace.

my questions

pacing: HHN has significantly less mileage - should there be a direct correlation therefore in my expectations for pacing? Not an issue - I’m a very slow runner and for me it’s about the training and enjoying the big day. Ran 2019 in 4:47 when I went with the 4:40 pacers until I lost them on Roebuck road :-( . Last race was Fingal 10k in 1 hour even. So wondering if sub 5 should be my target?

Fueling: I’ve completely forgotten at what distance on my LSRs I should start to practice taking gels - and how frequently.

Any advice appreciated and again hope you allow some near novice questions! The thread continues to be such a support - thanks for keeping it going.

OK - another non-novice then! Three marathons done, so you should know a bit about the distance by now. That’s a tough plan you’ve chosen, how are you finding it?

A recent HM of 1:56 suggests maybe 4:05-4:10 or so for your marathon target, so I’d be running those pace runs at 9:20-9:30.

Good luck!

Thanks. Running everything easy in the 6:30 to 6:55 min per km range. Yes Fingal 10k was this year. Running all the race series so 10 mile and 1/2 on the way. Tallaght 5 mile was 47 mins. In terms of target I’d love to stay with the 4:40 pacers this time as I lost them last time but my race series paces this time are slower than 2019 so wondering if sub 5hr is a better target. Not too worried either way as I don’t think I’ll be winning it 😀

Thanks also for the gel info. Will start to practice.

Nice route that on Saturday. Views must have been great up at Fairy Castle that day!

Interesting insight on the INCYD testing. Was that done at a track?

How are you feeling about those results in terms of predicted finishing time? I remember you mentioning the wheels came off in latter stages of your previous marathon. How are you fixed at this stage of training compared to back then?

That's all very interesting. I'd warn you against overcomplicating things here though. You choose your marathon target off current fitness, not your ability to absorb carbs/gels etc. Train to a specific target and let the gel consumption take care of itself. You practice on the long runs but on the day itself you will either be able to stomach the required amount or you won't - I often cannot take enough, personally, but it won't affect your time by more than a minute or two, trust me!

The LT testing is a very useful tool to have. I'd go with whatever targets and training paces Emmet prescribed for you - they are as accurate as you can get, assuming you were well rested and in good condition on the day of the test. I'm sure E also pointed out that the predicted targets can be 'somewhat notional' (which is what he said to me, AFAIK.)

NOTE:For other novices who have no idea what LT is or what this testing is all about, good news - you can have a successful marathon without knowing anything about it! 😉

There are one or two runners I know who can survive without gels, but that doesn't mean they don't replace carbs in another way.

The short answer is yes, you are wrong to be considering a marathon with little or no carb intake. You can't train that kind of hardship into yourself between now and October.

See Laineyfrecks' post above re gels - it's all you really need to know for now. As she says, even if you carb load very effectively, the body can only store enough glycogen for about two hours of marathon-paced running. You need to have a strategy for topping up throughout the race so that you are only barely dipping into fat stores towards the end. Trust us, we've been there, and trust yourself, you've been there too.