Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
13983994014034041062

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What are the realistic alternatives that are not reliant on a resource with an finite supply?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    They've been thrashed out ad nauseum on this thread but they're not to your taste, so you instantly dismiss.

    The only real long term solution is for us to use LESS energy. But no one seems very keen on this, not least the Greens, who'd rather peddle their new type of industries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    That's like asking what's your solution to a finite supply of food. There is only so much arable land and shrinking. You work with what you have maximise production usage and invest in technology. Green solution is we have a plan for that there is going to be a technology invited for 2050 were not telling you what it is. But trust us if you build all these windmills come 2050 it will be all fine. So You don't need to explore for more fossil fuels to fill the gap. Sure why build LNG storage only gives you 30 days to stock up on wood and diesel or source more LNG. But don't worry France will never turn off the electricity coming from the interconnector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    France is supplying power to its neighbours, its power-plants are old and needing more maintenance. There are lessons to be learned from the extended outage of the 400KM basslink cable in Tasmania. Basslink has had a few significant outages and is currently in receivership.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,756 ✭✭✭buried


    I highly doubt there will be blackouts either, but I would welcome them. Blackouts mean the majority of people won't be suckling on the propaganda teats of RTE and Independent news media. The establishment knows that if that particular situation happens, they are well and truly f**ked. With a bit of luck the lights will be turned out on all these frauds.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    One thing people forget is you don't mention blackouts if there not going to happen. Last year I wager they got around it by having the Data centres using their Diesl UPS at peak time then switch them off. Great for the environment like. Were also lucky with covid. Majority off offices closed to light heating/Cooling off. All those unused pc's turned off to. Obviously some shift of power usage to home but I wager a lot less used as your not going to sit in your house with all the lights on when not needed unlike an office for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The same crock of shite where irelands energy needs can be stored indefinitely in CNG or LNG tanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    No lng and CNG are actually real and used where as yours are all fantasy that only exist in never never land and will bankrupt the country....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306



    "As for costs, I don't concern myself with how much its going to cost a private company to do something as it has no bearing on anything for me."

    Huh? Those costs translate directly into how much you are going to be charged for your energy. Are you really not curious about how the guaranteed minimum price of electricity for new onshore wind is double the wholesale cost of electricity from just two years ago? Since there are no fuel costs (for all that free wind you were telling us about), aren't you just a tiny bit concerned that other input costs are presumably rising. Wouldn't you like to know what they are so we can figure out the likely trajectory of wind energy prices and whether they are affordable? Such a lack of curiosity is quite surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Why do you doubt the lights will go out? We are 57% dependant on gas for the electricity.

    Gas will be in short supply this winter ergo electricity will be in short supply unless we have anything else we can use to get those turbines turning.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Thankfully we still have gas to keep things going in this type of low wind weather.

    The wind enthusiasts would have us in blackouts right now.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are referring to the RESS figures, yeah the difference is explained

    The difference between RESS and the older ReFIT auctions explained below

    The ReFIT scheme used an incentive-based model which guaranteed developers a minimum price for the power supplied to the grid for 15 years after a project came online. If the price of electricity exceeded that level at any stage the price paid to the developer increased in line with that.


    Under RESS, the developer offers power at a certain price and that is the maximum price they will receive for the duration of the contract regardless of market prices.

    In addition "renewable generators will be required to pay back to electricity customers when market prices are high. The bid prices are also fixed over the lifetime of the support and no payments will be made during negative market price periods. The combination of these factors means better value for the electricity customer".

    My curiosity has been satiated



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Odd that we are suggesting to put a windfall tax on these companies if their so willing to give back. 🤔 Also very odd that why would we Use LNG because of Evil corporations. Yet Green ones seem to be fine. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭ps200306



    That doesn't explain the difference at all (though thanks for finally making the effort to dig out a link). You seem to be suggesting the strike price for RESS 2 is higher than the REFIT scheme because of the caps on prices in the former compared to the latter. But that's wrong because the RESS 1 strike price was lower than the REFIT scheme. And at the end of RESS 1, the Irish Wind Energy Association was "confident that the industry can cut the price of wind energy even further". Instead it's up 30%, apparently due to inflation in the costs of commodities needed for building turbines. It's a tad worrying that they use 4 to 10 times the amount of those commodities compared to fossil fuel generators.

    And regardless of the price caps, the prices are still very high compared to wholesale prices of two years ago, not to mention that the supplier gets paid whenever wind energy is curtailed because the grid can't accept it. (I can't help wondering how that bit works when our wind capacity is several times peak demand if Ryan gets his way). Of course, wind prices look pretty good compared to current gas prices. But that's unlikely to persist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Would love to hear the greens on here solution to the above..... I think we could be waiting a long time. Amber warnings all over the place because the wind doesn't blow and their solution is more wind !



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,667 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog



    Another warning for the public. We face power cuts because we are not producing enough energy.

    The penny will drop soon. When it does all the green nonsense goes out the window.

    You'll see gas, oil, coal all being put to use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Can you imagine another 1 million electric cars charging on top of this creaky system 🤣 The Green's are hopeless idiots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    If it wasn't a serious problem, we'd all be rolling around the aisles laughing at the complete contradictions in government policy at the moment. Promoting and incentivising the purchase and charging of EVs, promoting and incentivising heat pumps using electricity and so on whilst potentially limited in our supplies of gas and refusing to look at any new infrastructure that is not Green tech for power generation.

    Coal, oil & gas mining are apparently dirty but mining for lithium and the many other minerals needed for Green tech is perfectly fine seemingly.

    Dealing with changing patterns in climate cannot be about trying to stop change. We might as well fart into the wind, since changing climate has been around since long before we crawled out of the sea. But we should be concentrating on mitigating the effects of current change, how to live with it and adapt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭KildareP


    It's telling when you have to resort to making stuff up as your remaining line of defense.

    Nobody here has said CNG or LNG will provide indefinite storage for our energy. No-one.

    What 30-days worth of such storage does do is bide us time and allow us to keep the lights on at a basic level for a month while we secure alternate supply lines (or start rolling blackouts to extend our fuel storage out).

    Today, if the gas stops flowing without gas storage, yes there will be rolling blackouts, but Moneypoint, Tarbert and the various peaking plants will be able to meet most of the peak demand and almost all of the off-peak overnight demand, at least as things currently stand. So no, we won't be totally unaffected but we won't see a complete nationwide blackout either.

    Now here's the problem, Tarbert is going next year, Moneypoint in 2025.

    Come 2025, if the gas stops flowing, and we still have no means of storage, the grid will essentially go permanently dark across the country within hours and that's it until the gas starts flowing again, the vast majority of this country will have no power. None. Won't even have enough generation capacity that is not reliant on gas to give everyone a few hours of power a day.

    Our renewables will be useless - they need a grid to synchronise to and if the grid is for the most part now de-energised, then they can't generate.

    Most of our gas turbine plant can be refired on oil, but you're talking about 25 tons of oil per hour for every 100MW of energy generated in a gas turbine - to meet our typical daily high of 5GW, that's 1250 tons of oil an hour - around 30-40 road tankers of oil every single hour and it'll take a few days to mobilise fuel in that quantity. Days we'll be without power because we didn't have any gas stored to keep the generators running.

    And all of that is before we even start to contemplate the next problem coming down the line - how are we going to increase our existing generation capacity to cater for even more electricity usage as we push everyone towards buying EV's and heatpumps...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    It'll only drop when people are sitting at home in the freezing darkness in the middle of winter. And even then the penny will never drop for some people.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The current status. It'd actually be comical if it wasn't so serious. The madness of relying on wind is clear for all to see. 2.58% (and much of that is actually hydro). 🙄




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So if the worst comes to the worst and we get no gas via Moffat at the same time as a low wind period what option do we have?

    It looks like coal is getting harder to come by also:


    Can we match our peak demand without a gas and wind supply- using just coal and oil?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    There will be blackouts. It's absolutely inevitable. We will pay dearly for not investing in nuclear many years ago.

    God knows how bad things will get if we have a really cold winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    If we started the process of planning today it would be 2059 before they start building a nuclear plant, there was a piece about it on Radio 1 yesterday evening about it. Personally I'd take the blackouts before nuclear, I don't trust the Irish Government to deliver and run one safely or to oversee a private company to do it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,296 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...i suspect there would also be some issues with power outages in the health system....



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Extended Blackouts will be a complete disaster if they happen.

    We may get rolling blackouts.

    I just wonder if gas is stopped do we have enough in the remaining fossil fuel plants and the wind farms (that we can’t depend on) to keep the lights on.

    If the wind drops for a period of time do we lose some of the grid or all of the grid? I presume load shedding will have to happen to match the load to the available supply of electricity at that time.

    If that’s the case which areas are prioritised to be dropped first?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,296 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    whats the craic with rolling black outs? it sounds to me its when we just meet our energy demands, is this right?

    ive very little knowledge of our power grid, but it sounds like grids really dont like being shut down, there seems to be great problems restarting them

    it doesnt sound like we re all that well prepared for such blackouts, it sounds like we havent been putting enough into expanding our grid, and now its gonna show

    is it even possible to shut off certain parts of the network, in order to protect certain sectors, water works, health system, etc etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not pay much attention to RTE when it comes to statements from the green cult Acolytes of the Beyond on timelines. They are nowadays being allowed to spout the first nonsense that comes into their heads on anything that does not suit their ideology and are allowed to do so unchallenged.

    Just in passing this morning I heard another of these talking heads stating that we could all be merrily dancing at the crossroads without a care in the world with 100% renewable energy if the will was there within 5 years. Energy storage it seems is the answer to achieving this 5 year plan. Not a single question as to how that would be possible. Hydrogen is a long term pipe dream. As has already been posted here the cost of batteries as a stop-gap to fill the void of unreliable renewables would build more nuclear plants than we would ever need supplying us with a dependable source of energy, and when it comes to pumped storage Silvermines is apparently now the answer.

    Planning permission for Silvermines has not even been applied for. If it ever is it is nothing but another red herring pointless green fantasy make believe that like everything else has not been thought through. It is similar in output to Turlough Hill which would supply 360MW (5% of peak demand) for 6 hours before the upper reservoir would have to be refilled by pumping all that water back up that hill. Not only resulting in a net loss of energy, but for the periods of stored usage during prolonged periods of low input from renewables, would require fossil fueled plants to do that. Whoever came up with that one is wasting their talent. The comedy world is crying out for them.

    Was any of that mentioned in that interview ? Nope, talking head just let ramble away in his own make believe world.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Back of the napkin maths:

    So at the moment system demand is 4828MW.

    Wind is providing 66MW.

    This leaves 4762MW being provided by coal gas and other with 75.9% of that 4762MW being provided by gas, which is 3614MW.

    Approx 30% (or 1084MW) of that gas comes from corrib which is in our own backyard, however 70% (or 2529MW) comes in from the Moffat interconnectors.

    If there is a shortage of natural gas coming in from the Moffat lines and our wind is at this level, we would have to hope Moneypoint and our oil power stations can be ramped up to burn more coal and oil to cover the shortfall.

    Problem being we rely on Russian coal and we have 90 days supply of oil on whiddy which isn’t too bad- except there is no pipeline going from whiddy to mainland Ireland-we would have to charter a tanker to move the oil, at a time when tankers would be in high demand.

    After this I imagine it’s load shedding if we have a shortfall of MW.



Advertisement