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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The government can only put policy in place. The market decides the rest. There is a huge demand for housing. The occupancy rate in owner occupied compared to rental is lower. LL and units leaving the sector are now a serious issue. We even have the crazy situation now where people can it get back there principal private residence after coming back to Ireland.

    Dublin is a sh!tshow the rest of the country is fairly ok there is still options there if people choose. Nephew and his partner bought a house in the last few days. She has returned to college so her income was very low. The house was 250k the repayments ate 900/ month over 30 years. He has a trade and his income is 50-60k. They had some savings and there parents gifted them a little bit to get the deal over the line.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    That's quite manageable and a sustainable mortgage. I know some people uo around dublin paying over 1800 a month for mortgage for 30 years, very little wiggle room not to mention the stress when kids,school, child minding and college come down the line.

    I am in the process of moving out of Dublin now as its a shitshow, not just the rent but the gouging for everything too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The only reason it's over 30 years I imagine is because she has two years in college remaining. When that is complete they can increase there payment and reduce it to 20 years

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Do you think tradesmen and developers are sitting at home with nothing to do at the moment?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Landlords leaving properties vacant means they should be taxed so much they're forced to sell it.

    Giving landlords money to stay in the market does nothing for housing supply. These landlords exiting the market aren't building houses to rent. Then selling means that someone will own them to live in them.

    If I hear someone say rentals are higher density I'll go mad. Sure why not allow huge slums, there's great density in those too.

    You mention the rental supply. Are you saying there's no supply for buyers problem?

    Smart investors buy low and sell high anyways.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    If you solve the buying problem you solve the rental situation. You kill two birds with one stone.

    We have thousands of people renting who want to buy. If these people could buy, their rentals become free. It satisfies the pressure on sales and rental in one move.



  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭manniot2


    How are Dublin prices still increasing with the mass exodus? Surely that will have an impact soon. I suppose a certain cohort are stuck at this point but surely in a few years when nobody has to move to Dublin for work, we will see dramatic decreases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,061 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Occupancy rates of rental units is higher than that of homeowners. More people live in rented houseshares than families do in houses they own.

    If all rental homes were sold to individuals who then lived in them, we would have an even worse rental shortage. It is a zero sum game in terms of houses, but occupancy rates actually mean more homeowners makes rental crisis worse.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    What mass exodus? If you look at the CSO Labour Force Survey for Q1 2022 you'll see that Dublin has by far seen the greatest percentage increase in employment, even on a per capita basis. There is strong growth in employment in Dublin, so it's no surprise demand for accommodation remains high.




  • Administrators Posts: 53,845 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yes, we could solve the housing crisis instantly if we could magically built a ton of new supply out of thin air.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    That's a terrible excuse though? Sure if its all about density then why not ban buying outright? Only allow landlords to buy and they'll pack the rooms with people. You'd have high density then. Do you support this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Well giving landlords tax breaks doesn't make house appear!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Because our country has been rammed full of refugees beyond our capacity.

    There's an island off Cork that's population is increasing by 50% because they're going into the hotel!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Look, all you homeowners and landlords, I understand you're looking out for your own interests. If I managed to buy in the next year or two I'd switch my vote from sinn fein to fine gael and FF to protect my interests. No harm in admitting it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s not just that. It’s protecting the property. It’s impossible to evict tenants who are wrecking the place. PRTB are a joke. No way I am renting my place again. I’ll pay a tax if necessary - I’m not selling it as it’s likely I’ll need it in the future when I end up back in Dublin for work. I’d love for the market to function properly such that I can have confidence in doing so for the next few years, and not be held to ransom by bad tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,569 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The correlation between increased rents, contraction in supply and huge numbers of LLs leaving the market is an important one. If that trend continues, then rents continue to rise, people can’t save to buy houses etc.

    So, making the market more appealing for investors other than the corporate/fund type would seem to be likely to increase supply, or at least slow the exudus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭manniot2


    yes but many of those jobs can now be done from home so no need to move to Dublin. It might take a few years but there is no reason Dublin won’t be as cheap as the rest of the country in a few years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Your one or two house landlords do not build. They buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭drogon.


    This is what I don't get though, people are telling we have acute shortage of supply. But yet in April of this year,

    • We had over 35K houses that were empty cause they are waiting to be rented out. Yet there has been barely 1k of homes on average up for rent.
    • Close to 17k are empty cause they are waiting to be sold, but yet even today - 4 months later we have about 15k of those up on the market.

    The figures don't lie, something doesn't really add up. My gut tells me, by limiting supply they are artificially pushing prices up. It is called the scarcity principal. Honestly time will tell if this is the case, but certainly interesting times ahead !



  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭SummerK


    People cannot afford to buy because of high prices. Couples on average wages are having a hard time unless they have saved significant deposit. An example- A 3-bed semi in Cork is now around 360k+ and second-hand one's in good condition are well over 320k & then there is bidding war. Can't the local authority introduce more affordable housing where they sell at cost prices or at a marginal profit instead of handing over large sums of money to developers (like the Dublin apartment one's recently)?

    I think this would also make some of the second-hand homes available for renting again if they bring some tax relief for landlords. They seem to be not interested in vacant property tax.

    Prices went up due to the limited supply + increase in the cost of raw materials (as well as greed) and now that some of the material cost (incl timber) has gone down, do you see house prices going down? I don't think so.

    While many people are left with renting, increasing the supply would make people move into these homes thus bringing some of these houses to the rental market. Completely agree that the rental market is important but how would you solve it with a tiny supply of houses?

    Look I am not in a mood to argue as I genuinely want this to be fixed, but I don't think FF+FG nor SF genuinely wanting to fix it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭SummerK


    Completely agree but I think they (including councils) can do more considering there is massive demand. It appears to be all about profit as has always been.

    Post edited by SummerK on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Double post, sorry, can’t see how to delete.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Double post, sorry, can’t see how to delete



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    No it doesn’t, but it helps to keep these homes available for people to rent rather than being sold off and thus decreasing the amount of units for rent this pushing rental prices up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Investors are all over the market, it’s the exit of small landlords and accidental landlords that is also helping to kill the rental market. 

    This is too little too late though, the landlords deserting the market are the ones who never wanted to be landlords in the first place with absolutely punitive taxes on rental income (that wasn’t even covering their mortgage). These landlords won’t be back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Incorrect. There was an old farmhouse on the farm I did it up between 2014-2017. I have it rented. It would not be available or fit for occupation except for me. Many LL buy old houses and get them bought back to a habitable standard. Many old bedsits have been refurbished by LL. They provide a service.

    My son is working in Dublin. He has no intention or interest in buying a house in the short term. The first house he was in the owner gave them notice to vacate in May as he was selling it. They have since found another house to rent but this is happening wholesale accross the country

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It nothing about artificially pushing up prices. There is a substantial amount of housing vacant for one reason or another. Some LL have left there properties empty in RPZ because the rent is way below market rents and it makes sense to take a two year hit so you can reset the clock.

    People who might have considered short term letting are scared sh!tless because of all the new legislation. There are houses where people may have moved in with children, people with relative's in nursing homes and property going through or gone through probate.

    If you are going abroad for a while it probably gone to the stage where it's too risky to consider renting. There is a thread on this forum where people cannot get back possession of there house after giving notice in April. They will have to restart the process with the RTB and will be lucky if they get possession in 12+ months

    Rental has turned into a sh!tshow for the person who wants to only rent short-term 1-2 years

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    My house is in a farm yard. I cannot and will not cede control of it for H&S reasons. The R&L scheme would not have been appropriate as the Council costing would have been crazy expensive. Very few take this up unless the house is in fairly good condition. We did some of the work on the refurbishmend ourselves.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭aligator_am


    IMO, the insane policies in place that make it incredibly difficult to turf out problem tenants/people that won't pay is the main reason why non-Irish banks have left the market here. I think it's some doff of the cap to the Land League from back in the day or some similar bolloxollogy. Either way, it's a massive problem.

    Honestly, I don't blame you for not renting out your place again, considering the potential wrangling you'd have to face if you encounter a problem tenant.

    I think if the laws were changed to allow eviction for non payment of rent after a grace period of maybe a month or two then it would encourage more home owners to rent property. If they knew they had copperfastened rules in place, that would actually be enforced, then I think more potential landlords would be willing to roll the dice on it.



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