Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

GAA need to step up

Options
1252628303136

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Yes I am absolutely a product of my environment. I recognise that. Even Paisley in the end recognised that. Many don’t though. And I have never heard a republican say such words. They like to think they are simply right and everyone else is wrong.

    just briefly for now.

    WW1 is of as much significance in my community as the famine is in yours. I don’t think it’s useful to compare numbers of deaths - both were awful. While the decent people of these islands were trying to defeat nazism, republicans were stabbing us in the back.

    as for there being no problem remembering or singing about hero’s and battles from 100 years ago - oh if only. Republicans have agitated for decades to stop our community remembering someone from over 300 years ago. Why is this different? I recognise these figures and events are sensitive- would you not agree?

    you suggest sf aren’t trying to get rid of Britishness They go a step further they continue to lean on us brits to just leave

    here are a couple of photos from just last week in my neighbourhood. Two are orange halls and one a home

    the first one was requested by SF to be placed a the entrance to the orange hall the other two photos are how their less restrained supporters show the support to the cause. All happened within 10 days in a very small rural area




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    A lot of hate coming out in that post. You need to get it out francie and try to reflect on it.

    as for the “couple of lads” getting carried away and singing, do I really need to post the video so as you can reflect why you are only seeing a “couple of lads”?

    you are also forgetting that it’s not very long from you were tell us that the 12th passes of peacefully due to the work of the parades commission. You can’t have it both ways.

    by the way, is it tomorrow night that the feile, sponsored by SF city council will facilitate the ooh aah up the ra chants?

    sure it’s only a bit o crack



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭lurleen lumpkin


    What's the issue with the first image? Looks like a bilingual street sign for a main Street, next to the English language one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,556 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have zero issue with celebration and commemoration of the British army and it’s regiments downcow.

    Or do you?

    Are you prepared for quid pro quo and equality here? No more celebration and commemoration of your past and narrative?

    People WILL commemorate and celebrate their own - Unionist/Nationalist Loyalist/Republican alike.

    When you are ready to accept that - come back to us and we can talk about how that can be done with respect.

    Don’t come with the victimhood hanging out of you claiming you are the victim when your community is light years behind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You will find I am fairly consistent. I would feel it inappropriate to name a sporting event after the parachute regiment and then expect a broad spectrum of nationalists to attend. And that is not to equate a legitimate army in the western world with a terrorist organisation that carries out its own justice - but I am recognising you may equate them.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    I think you will find that WW1 is pretty significant in the ROI community too. I have a great great grandfather buried in France who fought in it, and a great grandfather who fought in Gallipoli (who apparently raised a tricolor in his barracks when back in Ireland and was almost court marshalled - only his superiors stepped in for him due to the lives he saved in battle). He was a republican - who not only wore but also SOLD the poppy. It seems everyone hated him!

    There were no Nazi's in WWI.

    Britain fought Nazism in WWII on one hand, but their policies, laws and wars here, attempted to destroy - as is very evident to this day - all traces of Irishness in this country. The famine was caused directly by British policy, and was the catalyst for alot of anti British sentiment, and an attempt to revive the Irish idendity. I'm not condoning it - merely want you to ask yourself - given the murders, the occupations, the penal laws, the non intervention when the population were starving to death, etc. etc - who do you think was more of a threat to Ireland - the British or the Germans?

    Very bad the graffiti and vandalism that happened to your hall and homes - but what do you mean - Sinn Fein requested someone to spray paint your hall?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,556 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nothing to do with me alone downcow.

    Your ‘terrorist’ is another’s hero. Two narratives and you the suprematist want only one told or voiced.

    Not going to happen is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Sorry for misleading. I was referring to the Irish outside the hall. I will understand if this surprises you, but the first picture is the most offensive to any local unionist I am speaking to. The other two are done by hoods (who would have been local ra men if they had been born 30 years earlier). The Irish was put there by our council - majority rule again.

    SF are putting in block requests for dozens of roads at a time. It is setting neighbour against neighbour in an area that was slowly working to put the conflict in the past. This is not about linguistic or cultural development. This is about tagging our area as republican.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    Mad. To be honest, that doesn't paint you or your hall in a great light.

    As I have tried to intonate - the Irish language is one of the oldest vernaculars in Europe.

    For a brief period of a few years, in the thousands of years of it's existence - it has intermingled with republicanism - and that is the sum total of what you and your compatriots focus on?

    All of our road signs down here are in English and Irish - are all our areas tagged as Loyalist by that logic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    In other parts of the UK or Ireland where where they have bilingual signage what do you infer? Is it only in NI that we are to infer bilingual signage equals contention? If that is that is the case what attitude needs to change regarding bilingual signage to make it fit in with the rest of the UK and Ireland or do you think people there will never fit in with other normal societies.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    There is a perception that some people in the North (Bryson types) think that being British should give them the right to stamp on the 'natives' necks. Any push back against that, or any display of Irishness, is an affront to Britishness. Is that the type of society you want to live in DC?

    You share this island with Irish Nationalists, as will your children. And Nationalists share it with you.

    Is having road-signs in both languages not the epitome of equality and something to be proud of?

    Only you are equating the Irish language, games and culture solely with republicanism.

    Not only does it do the breadth and diverse history on this island a massive disservice, but it also makes it so easy in your mind to hate anything Irish. It is a toxic belief to be honest, and doesn't stand up to even arbitrary scrutiny.

    I cannot stress that all of these things lasted for thousands of years before republicanism, and absolutely transcend it, whether you believe that or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,556 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'When you are used to supremacy('they are our wee streets, roads and our wee country') equality feels like oppression'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    out of interest Downcow - why was the hall closed before 1977?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Btw I looked up that first photo. As you can see the sign post was put at the beginning of Main street where it meets Mill Hill. Sign post always go at the beginning of a street not in the middle or any other place. So it just so happens that the entrance of the Oraange lodge is beside the place where a sign would go at the beginning of the street. So no need to inflame it. And btw does an orange order have anything against the irish language??



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are not taking it in context. And I am not trying to paint myself at all - there would be little learning in that on a discussion forum. Certainly I know all the nice things to say to make you like me but I am, as always, just being honest.

    Let’s take this little town as an example to give context.

    the main interaction unionists knowingly had with Irish language over the last 50 years was when it was painted in slogans on our property or public walls, along with brits out, laughing at our dead, etc. the town has had an orchestrated campaign of sectarian attacks to drive out the unionists. To all intent and purpose it succeeded. Only one 96 year old man left in the town and he had his windows broke again around Xmas. That’s out of a population of approx 40% unionist in the early 70s. Every single unionist owned premises was bombed, homes attacked etc. I use to hear Irish shouted often as I ran for cover from the young republicans. I couldn’t spell it but I certainly knew what chuckie ar La meant at a very young age.

    I don’t have to tell you what political party the perpetrators evolved into.

    current situation is that there is a major memorial to the perpetrators in the town square, tricolours fly over the kids play park etc (and a memorial to the most notorious local Ira killer right at the entrance to the play park). There is a wave of Irish signage moving through the town 100% of which is requested by SF and a tiny proportion of local nationalists support them in the subsequent votes (but they don’t need many). There has been very significant damage to community relations with neighbours of decades falling out, and worse, but the push goes on to green the token. It is definitely going to lead to the final ‘cleansing’ of the town

    it may surprise but I have supported several Irish language initiatives quietly under the radar It’s not my language and I have zero interest in it, but I completely supports its development by those that love it The people putting it on the signs are doing it’s development serious long term damage

    that’s a bit of a ramble but context



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Great questions.

    I have zero issue with Irish signage in roi or dual language in Scotland, wales etc. it don’t see them in the slightest contentious.

    I think it will take a process of cooperation around culture and identity issues in ni. It is currently very adversarial on both sides.

    tell me this. How would you feel if all the Derry signs in roi were changed to Londonderry (the current name of the city). They could still be bilingual but the Irish should also reflect the real name? A serious question and for more than you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I will take that criticism as not wholly unreasonable and will reflect on it.

    can you tell me why is there such sustain for England in your people. You same to want the team beaten no matter who they play. You seem to enjoy knocking English people etc (I don’t mean you personally)

    if England were playing Spain, who would you want to see win and why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I’m not inflaming it. I am telling you how people feel. You are correct that it is the end of the street. Mind you the street does have two sides. I will say know more, but watch what happens next to see who has inflamed the situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    "I will understand if this surprises you but the first picture is the most offensive"

    I am gobsmacked by this to be honest!

    A dual language road sign is more offensive than that disgusting graffiti?

    You seem to be suggesting that the reason for this is that it was put there legally by a democratically elected council.

    If that is not the reason please explain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    In fairness, he explained it a few posts up. I'm still reading through though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg



    I'm sure those people who did those awful things justified it by saying well the Unionists did it to us. And now you are justifying your beliefs by saying the same thing. And on and on it goes....

    I have never bombed anyones house or beaten them because of their religion. Nobody I know ever has. 99.99% of Irish people who have ever lived have never done those things. I'd say 99.99% of Irish people wouldn't condone it either. You can't equate a few people in your town doing these awful things with tarring a whole whole language, culture, music, sport, or history as being against you by the very presence of it's existence.

    The Irish suffered terribly at the hands of the British - and for the most part down here people have tried to get over it - it's the only way forward.

    Easy for me to say though, I have never experienced living in a warzone, as much of NI was in the 70's - 90's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    i can’t believe it was ever closed. I believe a youth club operated in it pre 1977 but maybe the youth club didn’t start until 1977.

    as for you answer to England quest, that doesn’t cut it. It’s a serious question. I don’t desire to see them getting beat unless we are playing them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    That’s exactly the reason. I thought I explained that. We are well used to graffiti against our community. But when those in power over you decide to rub your noses in it then it’s much more offensive. They didn’t even consult with the membership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Unfortunately it’s not just 0.1% of Irish people like you suggest. Our local MP several times a year,eulogises all those who terrorised our community, at their shrine. He also receives endless letters from a young many who lived in the town and had his innocent father murdered by the Ira, asking him to simply say the murder was wrong. He refuses and yet a large section of our community vote for him. So it’s not 99.9% angels. If it was the Protestant population would not have all left.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    Well what can I say? If Liverpool were playing England I'd support England, does that count?

    I think it goes by the insufferability factor of the fans - England fans are pretty fekin insufferable.

    In case you haven't noticed, alot of countries hate to see England fans coming and often prepare their riot police sufficiently for the event.



  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Miniegg


    Ok - but you are using a point in time in a country that for most of your life was a warzone (no idea what age you are obvs). Both sides have and are still doing awful things. It is terrible, but both sides have a lot in common with each other in that they have to live with people who did bad things to them.

    But still I beat the drum - Irish culture, history, language and sport exists and existed outside all of this, as did and does British. You are boiling down thousands of years of history that was separate from this, and discounting it because of what bad people did and are doing in your town. It just makes it so easy to hate the other side when you think like this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,579 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I don’t completely disagree with you. But what doesn’t help is that there is definitely more of a feeling in republican/Irish/nationalist side that they are somehow on the side of right and were the only real victims. You hear it here when people like francie get so agitated if there is even a hint that some Irish people might acknowledge that ulster-British are also victims (and perpetrators).

    there is a massive heavily funder sf pr machine trying to rewrite the past. Where else in the western world could a leader eulogise someone who burnt a young woman to death in front of her child. But Michelle O’Neil done it last week and we are supposed to get on board with their greening of ni including their Irish signs

    no one I know has any problem with Irish music in bars, fleadhs; indeed Irish dancing is taught in several orange halls What people have a problem with is using the language to tag areas

    do you realise that councils don’t have Irish sign policies as that would by successfully challenged as discriminatory They have dual language sign policy and my community can request ulster-Scot’s signs but we have worked very hard to resist this happening as it will just tag the areas as P or RC There have been hundreds of requests for signs and to this stage they have been 100% Irish and 100% from sf Does that not tell you who is agitating

    Northern Ireland will never be absorbed and indistinguishable from the rest of Ireland (or Uk). It is just too different. The shinners are in pure fantasyland but they could manage to pull us back to conflict.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 68,556 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I've more than acknowledged your community were also victims downcow.

    Every community was. That's what happens when conflict/war breaks out.

    Look at some of your hero's and what was done by them. Any war/conflict operation is grim and ugly and murderous.

    Ready to talk about not celebrating your side (Unionism/Loyalism and the British) and what they did and continue to do in pursuit of their aims?



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement