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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Compared to a nuclear wasteland, followed by loss of power anyway. We'll have to deal with the blackout. Either way by the time it's operational it would be somewhere in the the 2060's or 70's so I'd be close to 100.

    We need to look at the here and now, the 2020's.

    If we have blackouts this year next and we don't see a clear well thought and achievable plan to get from dependance on gas to renewable and stored energy. The green party will be finished in government and possibly Ireland. The next government will be under pressure to solve the power/energy crisis with limited options they will reinstate older oil, coal or peat power plants with some from of green-washing side step of the problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    A simpler case is we get 50% from wind and 30% from Gas, 20 from coal and oil, if we have no gas, we have to make do with 3500GW of power when we need 5000GW. There would have to be load shedding. Worst case, it's calm weather, we have to shut down large parts of country entirely to keep power to hospitals...



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,376 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Problem is we’ve had extended periods of low wind output in winter.

    If we lose the gas at that point we are in trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Restarting an electrical grid (called a black start) is to be avoided if possible, it will take weeks to get it backup again and probably several months to recover from any equipment damage if the outage does not take down manufacturing businesses. The Texas outage was triggered by significant a drop in wind output during a cold spell, which meant the Texas authorities had to drop some of the load on the grid, they had not done any planning on this and in the process turned off the power needed to keep the gas pipelines running, as a result this set off a cascading series of failures which meant no power to the gas plants . and the grid mostly went down.

    South Australia is an an example of a grid that collapsed due to the sudden drop in Wind in mid afternoon, hottest part of the day (think air conditioning), they put the batteries in to keep the grid up long enough so backup diesel generators can kick in. They have also since then put in inter-connectors to other Australian states that have coal plants generating power.

    Individual Australians have raised much the same concerns as raised on this thread.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sigh

    Texas failure was due to not winterising the grid which resulted in a boatload of failures throughout the system i.e. the whole grid was fkd regardless of source despite what the oil tycoons said.. In one way I can understand as they wouldn't be setup to cope with the temps they got during that period

    South Australia grid failure was caused by "once-in-50-year" storm that caused widespread damage to pylons and power lines which led to a cascading failure on the grid as generation sources tripped, were overloaded or dropped off the grid completely due to software inadequacies



  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    The Greens are fanatics -

    Reduce the national herd, will only increase the Herds in Brazil etc. which is environmentally worse

    Making a new car costs more carbon than fixing one, so make existing cars more environmentally friendly is a better policy than hounding existing cars off the road, with spurious NCT fails, expensive fixes, and taxes

    Attacking rural Ireland, will mean these people will have to move to cities - more environmentally negative

    An LPG terminal - should have been bulit and needs to be built now in Shannon or in Cork, gas more environmentally friendly than other FF, easier to transport, and turn off and on able! gives us more fuel independent options



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    How about we build a few new rubbish incinerator we can get energy from them and could be classed a renewable, we could even take rubbish recycling from other countries and renew it into green energy.

    If there are gas supply issues we could do a national clean up and clear out for the good of the country, burn all our old papers and books and other stuff we don't need anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Winterising the grid and economics of supply/demand were factors that exacerbated the situation, however, the fact is wind failed beforehand, not due to wind turbines being frozen, the wind speed dropped. Not only did wind speed drop in Texas, it dropped in other mid-Western states. Here is the wind output from the SouthWest Power pool region that manages the mid west of the United States. Look at the coal output and wind generated output at the same time. They got hit with the same cold weather Texas did, coal gas and oil saved them.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Being on a separate grid that was winterized saved them



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It's there in the graph. The wind speed dropped in front of a major surge in demand for electricity due to intense cold, there is no escaping that wind generation failed to deliver when it mattered most, not only in Texas but over a wide geographic area of the United States.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    What county in Ireland would you propose to put a nuclear power plant 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The price of electricity is based on the cost of fossil fuel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    What. makes you think providence won’t just flip the bird to Ireland and sell for pure profit on the open market



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said, no source escaped failure, but you seem determined to paint it as a wind failure when its verifiably untrue. Literally every single source underperformed due to the lack of winterisation, some better, some worse

    The state’s power plants were not prepared for the frigid temperatures that accompanied the storm. Natural gas, coal and nuclear plants — which provide the bulk of Texas’ power in the winter — were knocked offline, and wind turbines froze, too.

    “All sources underperformed expectations,” said Daniel Cohan, an associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at Rice University in Houston. “But far, far more than everything else combined were the shortfalls from natural gas.”

    During the blackouts, the grid lost roughly five times as much power from natural gas as it did from wind. Natural gas production froze, and so did the pipelines that transport the gas. Once power plants went offline, they were not prepared to restart in the below-freezing conditions.

    Demand for natural gas to heat homes and businesses also spiked, contributing to shortages. And high gas prices further disrupted generation, as operators who could not turn a profit took their plants offline.

    Several coal plants and one of Texas’ four nuclear facilities were also knocked offline by cold temperatures.

    The usually-balmy state does not require power plants to be winterized — “as we've painfully come to find out,” said Joshua Rhodes, a research associate at The University of Texas at Austin Energy Institute.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Where should the build a nuclear power plant and if building started today when would the plant be operational.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The reason why Texas had blackouts was because the gas pipelines froze



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Yes. There was NO wind when it was needed most, this graph below shows that wind failed in three operators zones (Ercot, SWPP, MISO) across the United States. In Texas, up until February 8, wind was exceeding expectations . . . then the bottom dropped out for 10 days.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There really is no logic to green thinking that I can see other than strong-arm blackmailing attempts at getting their own way. We have now had amber warnings on two consecutive days due to low or none existing wind, with more of the same to follow. We have greens happy to throw money and resources at wind hoping that if there is enough capacity beyond what we actually require, then it will produce the magical 100% we need when wind is low. Based on what we saw last Winter, this Spring and again this Summer that renewable nameplate installed capacity would have to be increased by a factor of 16 at least. That would leave us with a renewable capacity of 12 times our total requirements.

    Even accepting the logic behind that thinking, where it really flies out the window is that because of all the power plants shut down, (with a few major ones destined to go the same way in the near future), and others scaled back, when wind is low we are short on capacity and thus amber warnings.

    You really could not make this s**t up. There is neither rhyme, reason, logic or joined up thinking where greens are concerned.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Have a competition. Free electricity for the area for 25 years. Just think of all the EV`s and heat pumps they could buy with the savings. That should keep the greens happy.

    Of the last 411 nuclear power plants built, mean construction time was 7.5 years.

    How many years before the last renewable source is added to give us 100% dependable renewable electricity ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We have now had amber warnings on two consecutive days due to low or none existing wind, with more of the same to follow.

    ......

    You really could not make this s**t up

    I don't know, you're doing a good job of making things up

    In a statement, Eirgrid said: "The alert means that the buffer between the demand for electricity and the available supply is currently smaller than optimum. It does not indicate a loss of electricity supply to customers.


    "The reasons for this System Alert state are low wind, limited electricity imports and forced outages at a number of generators.


    "Just over one third of conventional generation is currently unavailable out of a total capacity of 6.3 gigawatts.


    "However, it is anticipated that the situation will improve over the coming hours as some generators return to service."




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    A whopping 1.4% of our electricity is right now coming from renewables (mostly hydro). Basically statistically irrelevant. The wind propaganda laid bare for all to see.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    I said "many years ago" we should have started. It will take at least 20 years for it to be up and running. Lack of foresight and planning is Irish thinking 101.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Hang on once in 50 years now according to the doom mongers is 1 in 10 now. 🤔 can't have it both ways. Pretending climate change only happens when it's supporting an argument and discounted when not. Were being bombarded with extreme weather will be the norm. Square that circle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    For the period 2010 - 2019 we had 13 Amber Alerts. For last year and this year so far we have had 10.

    From Eirgrid : An Amber Alert may be issued when a single Event would give rise to a reasonable possibility of failure to meet the Power System Demand. Capital and highlight emphasis theirs. What in that is made up ?

    What would be difficult to imagine of any sane person making something up, is that they would support a protest against gas fired plants when they are all that is preventing the grid from completely crashing, but you did did you not ?

    There is no denying the fact, even for a permanent green apologist like you, that while the greens are prepared to throw money and resources at creating up to as much as 12 times the capacity we actually require to get to renewables being reliable, their strong-arm tactic attempts of getting to this Nirvana have resulted in us being left perilously close to rolling blackouts due to alternative power plants having been scaled back while others have been shut down, with further shutdowns planned for the immediate future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,355 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Unbelievable how the greens have us all over a barrel.


    Like they literally punish us with carbon taxes for using fossil fuels yet at the same time can only supply the country and keep the lights on with fossil fuels, yet they are paid the big money to solve all these issues and have the solutions.


    My 6 year old could perform better than these imbeciles.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Your six year old will spend the next 12 years being indoctrinated into the climate cult and by their teens will be a climate justice warrior. The international Climate Action Network via it's proxies in this country Trócaire and An Taisce (signed off by Richard Bruton) have infiltrated the primary & secondary education system. That only starts to wear off once when they begin working to pay taxes and bills and feed their families.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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