IRFU Transgender Women Policy Change

System · 11-08-2022 11:52am #1

This discussion was created from comments split from: Womens' rugby Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Larbre34 · 10-08-2022 4:35pm

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2022/0810/1314991-irfu-bans-transgender-women-from-female-contact-rugby/

Good to see the integrity of the Women's game protected and a clear policy being set down so that there will be no uncertainty or grey areas. The worst possible thing that could happen is for any person to be included in the game, only to be disappointed later by a variation or lack of clarity.

Its good too that the IRFU will explore rugby participation for Trans Women through other non-contact outlets under its remit. Rugby is a game for all, but player safety must come first.

Clegg · 10-08-2022 5:05pm

Sad day for the sport in Ireland when we decide to discriminate against an already marginalised group in society. Much like the RFU ban, there are no winners to this.

10-08-2022 5:06pm

Given there was a grand total of 2 people affected, I think a case-by-case basis would have been the better choice for now

Lost Ormond · 10-08-2022 5:06pm

Real poor decision. following on from what RFU did in England and it affects so few players directly as well.

Larbre34 · 10-08-2022 5:22pm

Its not about win/lose.

Yes, there are very few players affected, but the Union have a responsibility to protect not just the integrity of the game and safety, but also themselves and their financial wellbeing from the potential consequences of litigation, either by an injured party or by a transgender player impacted by the application of a piecemeal or discretionary policy.

Any risk analysis will say that a comprehensive policy now, is better for all in the long run.

Dr. Greenthumb · 10-08-2022 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455034#Comment_119455034

Women's sport is the winner. There has been great strides in the last 5 years with promoting women's sport and providing opportunities to young girls to get involved and stay involved. Just look at the growth in women's soccer in the last few years. This protects the sport from a participation and welfare aspect as well as commercially as it continues to grow.

It was not a knee jerk reaction, they were forced into making a decision due to the nonsensical movement to allow biological males compete in women's sport and they made the right one based on science and the safety of women within their chosen sports. Any other opinion is just that, an opinion based on feelings rather than science or the welfare of existing athletes.

I have yet to hear any argument from the pro trans in women's sport that's based on anything else but "it's not fair".

Itxa · 10-08-2022 7:11pm

Looks to me like the IRFU, namely Potts, is playing the percentages here. Sure there is liability either side of this equation but Potts is betting on the minuscule trans community not suing. Understandable in the current environment.

petronius · 10-08-2022 7:18pm

Good decision IRFU! to protect the integrity of women's sport!

It is essential to promote the game among girls and women so that they are not in contact with non-biological women.

Ouch Chinese Byrne · 10-08-2022 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455034#Comment_119455034

The IRFU made the right call.

Bobeagleburger · 10-08-2022 7:20pm

Common sense prevails in that decision imo. Not everyone will agree with it, but most parents of girls playing rugby will.

CatFromHue · 10-08-2022 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455038#Comment_119455038

It's a difficult call but the science is overwhelmingly one sided on this.

For the case by case basis you have to come with a criteria and then monitor it through the athlete's life. The difficulty here is that it's always in the athlete's interest to perform poorly so just accurately measuring their max performance alone becomes a challenge.

Then there's the criteria to monitor. I do think most people will be surprised at the strength and power differences between males and females, it's pretty big. While the transition process does reduce the difference it comes nowhere near equalizing it.

Teferi · 10-08-2022 7:39pm

Weird. People who have never had an interest in rugby suddenly posting in the rugby forum. Definitely not suspicious at all.

Anyway, case-by-case basis was better. It allowed for nuance on the issue, which is far better than a sweeping policy.

Clegg · 10-08-2022 7:52pm

I see the TERFs have noticed

Caranica · 10-08-2022 9:18pm

Wow. Just wow. This thread has been one of the more progressive in the rugby forum, a few posters aside. Today, not so. As evidenced by the new arrivals to the thread.

Larbre34 · 10-08-2022 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455712#Comment_119455712

Absolutely incorrect.

Treating one person differently from another on subjective grounds, without an underpinning policy, actually IS discrimination and just the sort of mess the IRFU are specifically trying to avoid here. The sort of mess which could see them cleaned out in Court cases over unfair procedures.

And its not just two people involved here. Its amazed me how very intelligent people have been referring to that all day since the announcement, as if we're stuck in this moment forever. Its 2 today, it could be 30 or 40 in a year.

And absolutely nobody has mentioned 4,500 female players, above the juvenile age grades, whom this policy is designed to protect and reassure.

Pussyhands · 10-08-2022 10:11pm

Science prevails.

For those saying a case by case basis would be better....how???? You really think telling a transwoman they can't play but someone else can would be OK? "Mary can play but you can't because you're more like a man than her"

awec · 10-08-2022 10:14pm

I don't see how case-by-case could possibly work, I think that's an unworkable solution in practical terms. How would you even define the criteria that would make some women eligible and others ineligible?

While this affects a marginalised group in society, I can understand why the decision was made. Essentially, with this decision mens rugby is mixed rugby and womens rugby is for people born female only.

AckwelFoley · 10-08-2022 10:15pm

The right decision. This is not a case by case basis type of decision. Its not being discriminatory against trans gender people. Because women that transition to men can compete in men's rugby because they have no distinct advantage. All they need to do is sign a form. They're banning men that transition to women having being through puberty which has been scientifically proven to give them an physical advantage.

CatFromHue · 10-08-2022 10:15pm

Was there ever a case by case policy?

Larbre34 · 10-08-2022 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456370#Comment_119456370

Thats a bit of a contradiction in terms.

But I get what you mean. I think its fair to say that this has been prompted by developments in other Sports and then of course by the recent RFU policy announcement.

I can understand the IRFU wanting to get ahead of the situation though and in fairness, they have done.

Caranica · 10-08-2022 10:37pm

Mods (I think this includes you @awec) any chance of moving this discussion to its own thread rather than derail the women's rugby thread ten days before our tour starts?

10-08-2022 10:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456352#Comment_119456352

What I have in mind is if they're playing something like Clontarf J3's socially, then it's not really much of an issue. But if somebody is tearing it up and clearly using their years of testosterone as an advantage looking to play for Ireland, then treat it differently.

I completely understand the IRFU's decision and they've been very measured in their response but given that trans people have a disproportionate amount of suicides, I would have gone for a more nuanced approach for 2 people, for now.

Pussyhands · 10-08-2022 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456487#Comment_119456487

The ruling by the irfu isn't to stop two people playing women's rugby. It's to ensure everyone playing women's rugby are not put in harms way.

CatFromHue · 10-08-2022 11:26pm

It's unpopular to say but there is a reason why the female category exists in sport, it's not just a safety thing.

Larbre34 · 10-08-2022 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456460#Comment_119456460

There was a topic thread started after the RFU announcement a few weeks ago, it was closed down.

Caranica · 10-08-2022 11:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456670#Comment_119456670

All the more reason to give it its own thread today. It's totally derailing this thread with the Japan tour on the horizon and the 7s RWC just over 4 weeks away

sydthebeat · 10-08-2022 11:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456745#Comment_119456745

They'll be gone in a few days

RichieRich_89 · 11-08-2022 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456745#Comment_119456745

The last post on this thread before people started talking about the transwomen issue was 6 days ago?

There's nothing stopping anyone from posting about the Japan tour or the 7s World Cup.

AMKC · 11-08-2022 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456369#Comment_119456369

Ever think that maybe them Trans Women never wanted to go throught that puberty in the first place and would have been very happy to Transition then but the World was not ready for it yet and they or their familys did not know that they were not alone and could do it. All Trans Women would be very happy to have Transitioned before puberty. It's not their fault they might be stronger than other Women its societies fault for taking so dam long to change.

11-08-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456844#Comment_119456844

But then there's the matter of transition before puberty, and how understandably parents would want to exercise caution around their child of such a young age undergoing such drastic, irreversible bodily changes, as well as the emotional/psychological fallout. What if they regret it? Which does happen.

IRFU Transgender Women Policy Change

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