Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

I follow 5 African American feminists and I'm the pope.

You seem foreign to the concept that black people can be bigoted too? Homophobia is famously rampant among Black Americans for example.

This doesn't get us any closer to how "the science" you find so contemporary and compelling is not simply phrenology 2.0 for another age and another segregation target.

Also your race based argument against me being white only reinforces my observations here.

Yes.

If Blacks have held the 200m mens record ro 28 years how is that not unfair to whites, if Usain bolt racing as a woman is unfair to women?

Chattel Slavery for whites?

I hit the nail on the head. Already found someone to defend slavery as not racist. Convinced more than ever of the bigotry fueling this antitrans guff.

So only Black slaves count?

I said not necessarily racist or do you believe that keeping someone of the same ethnicity as a slave is racist.

What do I care which influence is greater, good enough for me that you acknowledge both are influences, and a source of bigotries.

Really the wrong hill to die on trying to equivocate indentured slavery to chattel slavery though, speaking of "which is greater." Both are terrible, but trying to "all slaves matter" the argument is a tad too ironic.

That person is doubling down on their pretence that the reason for sports being segregated by biological sex is due to bigotry. When it's (obviously, as we all know) due to differences in the male body and the female body…

More accurately, it’s something that’s claimed anyway, as the reason for sports being segregated. The reason for segregation in sports, from a historical perspective, is that the men who organised the sports, didn’t want women participating. It wasn’t unusual at the time that women were regarded as being inferior to men and were only suited to making and minding babies and children - confined to their domestic domain, excluded from public life, never mind getting any notions of participation in sports, because anything women did that wasn’t expected of them, was regarded as unladylike and a threat to the natural social order which dictated that a small group of men were superior to all beneath them.

They didn’t just think this of women, they thought it of whole groups of people in society based upon their characteristics and social standing. They maintained their dominant social standing by ensuring that nobody could ever be in a position to threaten their dominant position. Even they knew then that were everyone to be regarded as being of equal value, it would mean they could no longer regard themselves as superior to everyone else beneath them. They justified the maintaining of the social order under the premise that it was divinely ordained, and when they couldn’t argue it was divinely ordained any more, they had to come up with all sorts of “scientific evidence” to support their bigoted beliefs, not just about themselves, but about the people they regarded themselves as superior to.

Ensuring women couldn’t participate in sports had nothing to do with differences in male and female bodies; it had, and still has, everything to do with claiming that men are superior to women, and in the interests of being “fair”, women are relegated to participating in sports separately from men. The fact that women also enjoy far less reward for their participation is somehow seen as “fair” too, and excluding people who are transgender from participating in sports is just more of the same thing as has been evidenced throughout human history - their exclusion isn’t based upon scientific evidence. It can’t be, because there simply aren’t enough numbers of people who are transgender participating in sports in order to determine anything.

The vast majority of those participants who are transgender, like most participants in any sports, have never won, and will never win anything. They participate because of their passion for the sport and for the idea at least, that they might win. There are other factors of course such as the opportunities offered to those participating in sports and the sense of community that participating in sports gives it’s participants.

For some people, sports are all about winning, but for other people they are motivated by other reasons. Assuming it’s obvious that all participants in sports think the same way as each other is what would be preposterous, just as preposterous as suggesting that Government should have called off the marriage equality referendum because Paddy Manning objected to it on the grounds that marriage is a legal institution with a purpose: Children -

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20329976.html

He clearly didn’t think that one through, any more than anyone who would imagine all people on the basis of their characteristics they have in common should, or would, think the same way.

I’m certainly not a feminist either, no interest in that particular political or social ideology, but that whole crock of suggesting that anyone who argues in favour of treating people fairly without discrimination as to their sex, gender or sexual orientation must be a this, that or the other? That’s next levels of no true Scotsman fallacious nonsense. It sure as hell isn’t based upon any legitimate scientific reasoning or any credible scientific evidence whatsoever. It’s a purely political stance.

What do I care what you ommited when you said slavery? You called me bigoted and transphobic for calling out your omission.

I didn't say chattel slavery and indentured slavery are the same I said both are slavery and slavery in all forms is wrong. However you are so bigoted you only see chattel slavery as slavery unless indentured slavery is pointed out to you because it was black people.

A better Irish or other white male runner might get closer to Bolt. No woman has managed Flo Jo's time in 30 years even though training shoe's etc have improved.

You don't care that sex is a greater difference than race because it doesn't suit your agenda. Take other sports and you might find white people dominate and others like where there is no difference. Now show me the equivalent in sex segregated sports.

And you seem to be uncomfortable to the fact that there are still race differences evidenced, which is very incongruent with your own agenda.

My agenda is what, inclusivity? History has shown us how evergreen this hill is.

Ah ffs

I don’t think anyone has ever argued that biology doesn’t matter though, it’s the discrimination based upon gender or sex that they take issue with and refer to as bigotry, not biology. That being said, I wouldn’t refer to anyone as bigoted because I know well it’s inflammatory.