Our Taxes are far too low for Our Expectations of Public Services

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 10:57pm #1

You cannot have European Social Democratic Services (free health, free college, mass social housing, public transport on that level, big state pensions etc) with Irish taxes. I want us to have a European social democratic system, and the parties arguing for a centre left state (basically everyone but FF and FG) are lying and being nothing but populist without being honest about this. Water charges is a great example, we decided to underfund our water services to avoid paying for it as a community. Thats not a left wing policy, its Trumpian.

Please educate yourselves on how low taxes are in Ireland and how we have inferior services as a result

Even with USC a person on 30,000 in Ireland pays 5000 less in tax a year than a German on the same income. I’m talking about take home pay

We are, with the exception of Switzerland, the lowest tax country in Western Europe

Someone on 30,000 in Belgium takes home €22,147 after all taxes

In Germany they take home €20,787

In Ireland they take home €25,683

On 40,000 Germany take home pay is €26,457

In Belgium it’s €26,926

In Ireland it’s €32,073

Our taxes including usc etc are so low someone on €30,000 in Ireland comes out with pretty much the same as someone on €40,000 in Germany

Under Bertie’s FF govt we cut taxes down to the bone

Strumms · 10-08-2022 10:59pm

Our taxes are not too low .. the overburdening demand on that tax is too great…

purplefields · 10-08-2022 11:07pm

If you want to pay more tax, go ahead. I don't believe anyone is stopping you. Make a voluntary donation to Revenue.

For me, I just don't only pay income taxes, I also pay taxes on just about everything here in Ireland. No matter what you do, the Government is waiting to tax you for it. It all adds up.

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 11:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456588#Comment_119456588

VAT is 25% in Sweden

xxxxxxl · 10-08-2022 11:10pm

Is this in relation to the Tweet, Where did they get the figures Any reason why most of the EU is excluded ?

purplefields · 10-08-2022 11:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456599#Comment_119456599

Germany VAT is 19%.

Anyway, I'm not talking about just VAT. There are plenty more taxes, duties and other such charges.

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456600#Comment_119456600

I got the figures from the website salaryaftertax.com in which you put in a gross salary and they tell you the net in that country.

I used Germany and Belgium as they are examples of countries with much better services and living standards than here and they have the same currency to compare

Brucie Bonus · 10-08-2022 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058258331/our-taxes-are-far-too-low-for-our-expectations-of-public-services

Your opening line is completely inaccurate. Our taxes pay for these 'free' things.

The state squanders taxes through incompetence and cronyism. Then the public are begrudged basic services.

Health isn't generationally bad because of not enough money. They want it so bad they can bring in more privatisation as a way of 'improving' it. Its the same thing they did with housing.

If the state was manged better and we got value for money people might see the point in paying taxes.

xxxxxxl · 10-08-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456609#Comment_119456609

Is there a reason you did not use the average wage Gross €44,202 according to the cso.

y0ssar1an22 · 10-08-2022 11:18pm

there are many things wrong with the current tax/social welfare system.

there is no incentive to get a job in a lot of cases. for example minimum wage, think if you work 20 hours per week you come out with the same as social welfare for not working.

SW needs to be reduced, or min wage increased. that'll get people into the workforce to pay for all the above social expenditure.

and whats mass social housing as defined by yourself?

purplefields · 10-08-2022 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456629#Comment_119456629

Yes, there is a reason. A substantial chunk would be in the 40% band.

xxxxxxl · 10-08-2022 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456638#Comment_119456638

So you mean totally misleading 🤔

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 11:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456642#Comment_119456642

Germany

44,000

Yearly take-home salary

€ 28,650

Monthly take-home salary

€ 2,388

Ireland

44,000

Yearly take-home salary

€ 34,133

Monthly take-home salary

€ 2,844

xxxxxxl · 10-08-2022 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456660#Comment_119456660

Weird site only using direct tax on wages that's it. Germany for example you get your full wage for x amount of time when you are unemployed here you get a fixed rate. Nothing in relation to cost of living and stealth taxes.

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456696#Comment_119456696

Yes, because as Im arguing with higher taxes on income they have less stealth charges, less up front costs, and more public housing, public transport, better pensions which saves the citizen money in the long run

xxxxxxl · 10-08-2022 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456709#Comment_119456709

But that would not work here. We already waste so much money in Government. Your trying to compare Germans who have a world renowned knowledge of efficiency to our lot. Stupid stuff like if you don't spend your budget you will get less the next year. You will see the local council putting in unnecessary street furniture then removing it then putting it back in next year.

y0ssar1an22 · 10-08-2022 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456709#Comment_119456709

what do you want higher taxes to pay for?

10-08-2022 11:50pm

As a big, dirty, far-left socialist, our main issue isn't taxation. Ireland's problems wouldn't be solved with an increase in taxes.

It's value for money.

Irish people wouldn't mind paying their taxes if they were getting value for money. It's mental that such a large percentage of the tax payers pay such a large percentage of taxes and get nothing tangible in return.

The trouble is our government is too busy siphoning tax payer money off to developers and the captains of industry.

Housing99 · 10-08-2022 11:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456728#Comment_119456728

So I can have secure housing instead of having to rent in Dublin

So it would be possible to move to a commuter town where I could buy and have a 24 hour transport system so I could still socialise in Dublin and not live in isolation in that rural part

So people will not retire into poverty from a tiny state pension

So our schools are not over crowded and falling apart

So our healthcare system does not have us die on trolleys

If you are a free markets **** the poor and average worker type fine, thats not this point. My point is Irish people seem to want European services but are not willing to pay the taxes they require

xxxxxxl · 11-08-2022 12:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456762#Comment_119456762

That would take a level of efficiency Ireland is not capable of in the civil service. Also anecdotally Don't we have the most civil servants per capita in the OECD ? Or somewhere close.

Housing99 · 11-08-2022 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456807#Comment_119456807

I dont want more clerical officers. I want directly employed builders and architects to solve the housing crisis through public housing

But I guess you are saying it cant be fixed, life will be misery for a significant amount of the population and private renting will be more and more common. Groovy, distopia it is

sameoldname · 11-08-2022 12:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456807#Comment_119456807

Not even close. We're below the OECD average and the EU average. About 15% of our workforce work for the government compared to places like Sweden and Norway where it's about 30%.

y0ssar1an22 · 11-08-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456762#Comment_119456762

what does secure housing mean?

you can currently move to lots of commuter towns and be in dublin in 90 mins via bus or train. granted, currently no 24hr service else for taxi. but thats just completely unviable.

regarding the pension, what would you like it to be?

pay teachers more to attract them in....that doesnt need to be a function of increased taxes though. just spend the money more wisely. less admin, more teachers, same goes for most public servants. the money is just wasted.

improve the public healthcare system. there are a few things they can do here. stop consultants using public hospitals as their private practise. its a long term one, but do something about people who drink/smoke/eat too much/dont exercise enough. those ailments must count for like 25% of admissions.

xxxxxxl · 11-08-2022 12:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456832#Comment_119456832

No I would hire one of the Efficiency agency's can't remember the correct term. Take a fine tooth comb to the civil service. Fire underperforming obviously after performance targets are not met. Root out duplication get rid of it redeploy if possible. Create one core software system for each department. Remove paper from the office completely digital. You could remove 90% of customer facing role "no kidding that's what the dole call you" redeploy. Same in most departments. Expand the mygov site to include everything. If face to face needed minimum via appointment. The list goes on.

Housing99 · 11-08-2022 12:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456852#Comment_119456852

90 mins is too much of a commute.

Secure housing means a landlord cannot tell you to leave or increase your rent. It means what council housing is and what mortgages are

I find it stunning that people who think SF will destroy their economy will not support measures to stop them getting to power, which would be masses of affordable housing in Dublin

xxxxxxl · 11-08-2022 12:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456840#Comment_119456840

Have you a link to that have been trying to find it. OECD info is a rabbit hole.

11-08-2022 12:39am

Trolly mc troll has been reported.

sameoldname · 11-08-2022 12:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456872#Comment_119456872

1c258f55-en.pdf (oecd-ilibrary.org) Page 103

Brucie Bonus · 11-08-2022 12:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456633#Comment_119456633

You cannot refuse work if you are on welfare, otherwise they stop payments. You cannot receive welfare by deciding not to work.

You are basing some of your opinions on the anecdotal and incorrect belief that people on welfare, deciding not to work is a big problem. Its the same bull crap varadkar tried to pull regarding welfare fraud. We can't have record high employment and anything but a minimal issue with people defrauding welfare. We have much bigger problems with the way government spend taxes. Incompetence, cronyism, special advisors, social media gurus and on and on.

y0ssar1an22 · 11-08-2022 12:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456862#Comment_119456862

people do that 2 x day for a job all over the country. does it wear them down? 100%? do they do it anyway? 100%.

if you dont pay, should the landlord be able to kick you out?

more housing in dublin is clearly a good thing. who should new housing go to in dublin, and who should pay? that seems to be the crux of your issue..correct me if i'm wrong?

Housing99 · 11-08-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456901#Comment_119456901

The crux of my issue is that working class Dubliners, even those with decent jobs 50k ish salaries, are being forced to either pay very high insecure rents or live at home with parents as the alternative is forced migration from their city. Thats a total disaster

And I would like to see all tax breaks for tech etc stopped as they are just bringing people in from overseas that are displacing the locals as happened in London in the 80s

Look at Vienna for why it doesnt need to be this way

Our Taxes are far too low for Our Expectations of Public Services

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