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Our Taxes are far too low for Our Expectations of Public Services

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    #32
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456880#Comment_119456880

    Governments decide which services should be delivered directly through public organisations, or through various forms of partnerships with the private or not-for-profit sectors. For example, in some countries, the large majority of health care providers, teachers and emergency workers are directly employed by the government. In others, these workers are mainly employed by private or non-profit organisations.

    Thought so we outsource a lot to NGO's hence the running joke of Ireland only having NGO employment. You would have to include them as public servants imop. And they are completely duplicated.



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    #33
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456916#Comment_119456916

    Unless you think 15% of the entire workforce is employed by NGO's your original statement was still horseshit.



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    #34
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456862#Comment_119456862

    I find it stunning that people who think SF will destroy their economy will not support measures to stop them getting to power, which would be masses of affordable housing in Dublin

    It is Sinn Fein's policies (along with FF/FG incompetence) that are preventing affordable housing.

    As for your OP, As long as the bulk of our taxes is being used to simply transfer wealth from the hard working population to the work-shy population there won't be any appetite to increase taxes.



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    #35
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456926#Comment_119456926

    No its not. The cost of materials is more than affordable housing would be. Therefore any for profit housing (would cost at least 200k in Dublin for 1 bed, 350k for a house) Given average incomes are around 40,000, affordable under our lending rules is 150,000 or for a couple in the region of 250k. Affordable housing would mean state provided housing of 15% of income as council housing is, for all workers earning a household income under 80,000, like it is in Austria and Germany



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    #36
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456924#Comment_119456924

    158,000 is the information I have seen. How far off is that.



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    #37
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456934#Comment_119456934

    How am I supposed to know, you're the one making the claim. Post up some stats for the percentage of the workforce employed by NGO's funded by the government and then we can discuss it.



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    #38
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456938#Comment_119456938
    https://www.thejournal.ie/money-nonprofits-ireland-3964879-Apr2018/#:~:text=At%20about%20%E2%82%AC103%20million,8%25%20of%20the%20Exchequer%20spend.

    158,000 Should be larger now than 2018.

    And what 2.3m employed in Ireland.



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    #39
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456900#Comment_119456900

    thats why i think local companies need to go into partnership with the government.

    SW: mrs subway owner: you cant get any workers. here's our list of people currently finding work. they all are actively looking but just missed your ad.

    mrs subway owner: cool, thanks. i'll hire a few

    mrs SW recipinent: i aint taking that job.

    what SW should do: right, no SW for you so.

    yes you can, that the problem! you can pretend to be looking for a job without ever looking for a job.

    just cut social welfare, increase minimum wage.

    would you have any problems with that?



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    #40
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456945#Comment_119456945

    True but even the gov said what was it €350 during covied was livable. Doubt Subway pays that.



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    #41
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456945#Comment_119456945

    No one should be forced to work for poverty wages. Subway wants workers they need to pay good wages. Realistically a minimum wage should be enough to live independently (not house sharing or living with parents)



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    #42
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456943#Comment_119456943

    I don't see why I should have to do the maths for you in this but looking at your post count since you've joined you clearly don't have time to put any effort in. Anyway, 158,000 people employed by NGO's with 12.1 billion in funding total. 5.5 billion of that is from the government which is 45%. 45% of 158,000 is 71,100 to get rough numbers of who the government is actually paying for. 71,100 out of 2.3 million workforce is 3.1%. Add that to the 15% of total government employees in the national workforce and you get 18.1%. 18.1% is smack bang in the middle of the OECD average, and to get anything useful from that information you'd have to calculate the amount of people working for government funded NGO's in every other country too but I'll leave that to you. Either way, your initial statement was horseshit.



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    #43
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456949#Comment_119456949

    are you looking for a free house?



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    #44
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456963#Comment_119456963

    Your splitting hairs they receive gov funding just like what I quoted originally and why they were removed from figures. Their budget is irrelevant. You think they split the office 50 50 and pay one from gov and the others from their own budget.. Laughable. And again that was from 2018. Who do you think took up the slack in Covid. 🤔



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    #45
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456973#Comment_119456973

    Ok then, they're all employed by the government then according to you. That makes 21%. 21% is still nowhere near the 30% rate of the higher-end countries. Are you willing to concede that your claim was horseshit? I don't even know what the **** you're actually arguing about at this stage.



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    #46
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456761#Comment_119456761

    Corporation tax is the main reason there is such a buoyant budget surplus. Where is the government siphoning off money? If you're going to throw around slanderous, baseless lies, at least back up your claims.

    20bn was poured into the HSE with deplorable results. If anyone is siphoning tax payer funds, it is the State itself. How dare you slander and slur the people keeping this country afloat.



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    #47
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456984#Comment_119456984

    How are you getting 21% did you remove the Gov employees from the 2.3 million ?



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    #48
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456986#Comment_119456986

    3bn gone for the Ukrainian situation of the what 5bn surplus ?



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    #49
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456989#Comment_119456989

    I already did the maths and showed you them, if you can't follow them that's on you.


    I'm willing to do some other maths though. You joined boards on the 28th of June and have 1113 posts. That's over 25 per day. Assuming you sleep, that means you've posted 1.6 times per hour, every hour for the past 6 weeks. No wonder you can't understand where I got my figures from even though I showed you. You must be exhausted. You should put down the phone and take some time to yourself. I'm not even joking.



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    #50
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457000#Comment_119457000

    71,100 out of 2.3 million workforce is 3.1%. Add that to the 15% of total government employees in the national workforce and you get 18.1%


    You did not remove them. 2.3 million right there. removing 15% from 2.3 million would be less than 2.3 million. 2.3 is everyone with a job including gov.



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    #51
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457004#Comment_119457004

    Lad, if you can't figure out why I wouldn't remove them then we probably shouldn't be having this conversation. But hey, look at the bright side, you increased your post count again.



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    #52
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058258331/our-taxes-are-far-too-low-for-our-expectations-of-public-services

    And you were going so well until you mentioned Switzerland. Yes we doe have low taxes like Ireland, we also have an excellent healthcare services, generous unemployment terms, an education system that strongly supports young people in apprenticeships etc... so it your basic assumption is BS, it is possible to have good services on low tax rates.

    So stop trolling and go away and educate yourself.



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    #53
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456932#Comment_119456932

    I point you to the children's hospital as an example of why the state and building something should never be even whispered in the same sentence.

    Taxes ok so we are under taxed will you go and do one please. I give you my average day

    I wake up - my alarm clock goes off (VAT + PSO and Carbon tax on Electricity)

    I turn the light on in my bathroom to have a shave and shower (VAT on razors, soap, shampoo above taxes for as electricity, VAT on the oil for heating the water)

    I go down make myself a coffee and some toast with a bit of butter (VAT for coffee and see above for electricity)

    I leave the house (LPT tax, stamp duty, VAT on both life insurance and home insurance for the house) and drive my kids to the creche and then on to work in my car (VAT on car, Motor tax, Insurance (VAT), VRT, Carbon tax on petrol, VAT on petrol, VAT on servicing the car), no decent public transfer with in a 45 minute walk, so no other option.

    I go to work, work 8 - 10 hours (USC, Income tax, PRSI)

    I go home make some dinner something simple a spagball (Electricity charges, VAT on bin charges for the waste)

    I sit down watch a bit of TV (TV license, Electricity charges, VAT on TV, VAT on service provider costs)

    I might make a light snack and then later do some laundry (more electricity charges.)

    I go to bed and set my alarm clock (more electricity charges)

    Now that's just on a daily basis the above routine and you think we are under taxed not on your phucking Nelly.

    Sure they tried to tax water (imagine that) it wont be long before we are taxed per breathe. As mentioned we pay more than enough tax its what is given return and how the money is wasted is the issue.

    This is not to mention the other charges (some of which are of the governments making) or costs of living that even when living a very frugal life but I still have to pay for :

    Insurances on on both the car and house (life and home)

    Toll bridges

    bin charges

    creche fees

    mortgage

    petrol for the car

    servicing the car

    heating/electricity

    food

    clothing


    Tackle the waste first before any more tax is paid please.



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    #54
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456949#Comment_119456949

    No one should expect to live off the state either, if you find yourself out of work its up to you to get another job and you should be given a timeframe and not up to everyone else to keep over paying in taxes to keep you afloat.



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    #55
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Honestly, taxation is not the issue.

    It's Ireland's yoyo economic cycles. Boom bust boom bust every 10 years.

    I'm 32. I've lived through the end of the boom, the great recession, the short recovery, and now another recession.

    What I wouldn't give for 10 years of stability. 10 years of knowing that this year was going to be the same (or maybe slightly better) than the last.



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    #56
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Our problem isn't a lack of taxation. Our problem is with how those taxes are spent (squandered), and how the bulk of it comes from a squeezed middle, with far too many others being excluded outright or having their contributions minimalised.

    There's also more at play than just income tax. There are a raft of other charges, levies, and fees that are unavoidable, not to mention others like private healthcare that are likewise virtually essential if you want to be seen for a non-life threatening issue without a wait of several years.



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    #57
    thinkabouit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭thinkabouit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456945#Comment_119456945

    I would agree with that in some contexts, there's far too many people I no that haven't worked a day in there life.

    A min wage job is usually a stepping stone onto bigger and better thing's.

    Everybody should be contributing something.

    We pay far to many taxes for what we get.

    Maybe if we werent paying the bill for bankers bailout we would have some country.

    They need to do a better job of the money they get now before we should be giving them any more.

    Think of the salarys and the pensions those politicians have received from the state over the past few 30 year's.



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    #58
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457662#Comment_119457662

    Just one thing there the bankers bill was 64 billion minus what we would get for the states share in both AIB and BOI so its estimated at about 40 billion so its 1/6th of our over all debt. I don't like the bankers or what they did but blaming them on the full amount of our debt is wrong and needs to be addressed otherwise people will not cop on to the fact that we waste money on a lot of other areas in this country and we would still be 200 billion in debt even if we had no banks playing the silly bugger.



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    #59
    Brucie Bonus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456945#Comment_119456945

    We've had that over the years. It got abused. Instead of hiring one full time staff member they'd hire two part time, that way welfare paid them. So the employer got free staff. The most recent one we had was job bridge, where the head or chair had a private company who had the most 'interns' under that scheme, staff the tax payer paid, working in his company. It was widely abused by employers.



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    #60
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,220 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457662#Comment_119457662

    There are actually not that many.

    Our unemployment rate is apparently 4.2%, about 110,000 people unemployed and about 50/50 men and women.

    There are many reasons people are unemployed, but the "long-term" unemployed are only a fraction of that figure. Honestly, you're not going to get these people to work at all, never mind a low skill, low pay menial job.



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    #61
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I've found a solution: cut public services and then cut tax.

    Start with the HSE, work down.



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