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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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    #2222
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119459771#Comment_119459771
    1. Hahaha a rigged “fight”. Look it up.
    2. A kicker in NFL, no contact.
    3. A 29yo in her prime vs a 55yo.
    4. Driving, no physical advantage to anyone. Car does the work.
    5. FFS hahaha. A predetermined wrestling match.
    6. She played minor league baseball
    7. Jockey, no physical advantage to anyone. Horse does the work.
    8. Surfing, no physical advantage to anyone.
    9. Sailing, as above.
    10. Exhibition game
    11. Shooting, no physicality.
    12. Can’t find any record of where she finished.

    What a ridiculous list 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣



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    #2223
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,473 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457805#Comment_119457805

    Having a counter opinion isn’t prejudice…

    however bandying around that accusation at anyone who disagrees with your narrative is prejudice is certainly both lazy and disingenuous.



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    #2224
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    I think part of the issue here is some people don't understand sport and have probably never been involved in it.

    Hence you have people obliviously sharing WWE fights as evidence that women can compete with men physically in contact sports. Pretty embarrassing.



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    #2225
    mikethecop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460607#Comment_119460607

    so sports is another one of the many subjects that you know nothing about but insist on professing your badly informed opinion on loudly and often and accusing anyone who knows more than you what ever slur you fancy ,


    same old same so



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    #2226
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461211#Comment_119461211


    It wasn’t even a counter opinion though, it was that posters own observations, based upon, yes, nothing more than their own prejudices -


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119457541#Comment_119457541


    I’ll stick with describing what was expressed as based upon nothing more than their own prejudices, if it’s all the same to you -

    2a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion

    (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

    b: an instance of such judgment or opinion

    c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice



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    #2227
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461255#Comment_119461255

    You know when someone is scraping the bottom of the barrel when they use the WWE as an example and even then they are wrong. Even in mixed tag matches in the WWE it's woman vs woman and man vs man once the man tags in his female partner then the other man must tag in their female partner. They never have woman vs man.



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    #2228
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460358#Comment_119460358

    The biggest difference between men and women caused by testosterone is in upper body strength. In weight lifting, men who are matched with women in terms of mass and stature can lift 30% greater weights. It seems reasonable to think that would translate to boxing performance, as well as rugby contact.



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    #2229
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,350 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I never addressed anyone as a bigot? If you internalized that it wasn't from my way.



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    #2230
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,708 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461314#Comment_119461314

    Weight categories and paralympic events are also segregation. Also to be done away with?

    Maybe just end sports entirely so no one feels left out. Harrison Bergeron had a few appropriate scenes.



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    #2231
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461439#Comment_119461439

    There was a transwoman who competed in MMA in 2015. Her career alone should have been enough to show that transwoman had an unfair advantage and the damage this advantage could cause.

    She broke one of opponents orbital and also fractured her skull. These type of injuries are rare in male combat sports but even rarer in female combat sports. So rare I'm not sure if this type of injury has been repeated. She was 39 when she gave that injury too, which is very telling in itself.



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    #2232
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461510#Comment_119461510


    The types of injuries you’re describing aren’t rare in combat sports, or men’s sports or women’s sports. That being said, Fallon is an absolute menace, but, those types of personalities are attracted to combat and contact sports.

    For what it’s worth though -

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/16/facebook-posts/social-media-posts-mislead-about-transgender-mma-f/

    https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2660448-after-skull-fracture-bellator-should-say-no-to-the-return-of-evangelista-santos.amp.html



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    #2233
    John Doe1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    I feel like that picture could be in history books to illustrate the trans craze of the 2010's.

    Id imagine there would not be too many transmen getting on a men's team for some strange reason



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    #2234
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461567#Comment_119461567

    Sorry I left out the rare from punches bit.

    You're right these type of injuries do happen but are rare from just punches, and even rarer in the female division just from punches.



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    #2235
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461615#Comment_119461615


    Most common types of injuries in both mens and womens combat sports are to the head, face and eyes, from punches.

    I included the headline as the images in the article are quite graphic, not the kind of thing anyone wants to be seeing before bedtime.

    5 female fighters who were left completely disfigured - including one punched 236 times

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/boxing/disfigured-female-fighters-boxing-gutierrez-25793685.amp


    There have been attempts made to make the sports safer, but… and it’s entirely cynical of me to suggest it, but there’s a balance being struck between participants safety, and the vast sums of money that the promoters of these sports get as a result of people who want to be entertained. The organisations involved don’t want unregulated matches that they don’t control to become popular either, because they make no money out of those -

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/mma/female-mma-fighter-badly-beaten-25348887.amp

    Every sport has to start somewhere. I’m not condoning their behaviour in any way whatsoever btw. I’m making the point that it shouldn’t need to be said that participants safety and health should of paramount importance, that should be taken as a given rather than trying to misrepresent anyone’s argument to suggest they relish the idea of anyone suffering life changing injuries or damage to their long-term health, regardless of the participants gender or sex.



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    #2236
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The first example there was from a head butt, the second the damage was only swelling, the third the same, the fourth was from a class of heads, and the fifth was just bruising.

    A broken bone from just a punch is a very different type of injury.



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    #2237
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,899 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461703#Comment_119461703


    We appear to be talking at cross-purposes here so because your main point appears to be that men shouldn’t be able to inflict those kinds of injuries on women, whereas my point is that nobody should be able to inflict any kind of injuries on anyone. Injuries will happen in sports, but the idea, at least generally speaking - is to prevent participants from being injured. Aiming to do so however, comes at the cost of entertainment value for people who pay significant amounts of money because they find those sort of sports entertaining.



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    #2238
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    just an observation from reading articles posted on facebook, twitter, etc. in the last week about the IRFU decision, or the LGFA situation...

    I'd say 95%+ of the comments could be considered 'bigoted' or 'transphobic' by some, there seems to be very little support among the general public for trans women to be allowed participate in female sports



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    #2239
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119460599#Comment_119460599

    I pity the archivist who has to wade through all this crap....

    No one's going to be looking, no one will care, boards will probably be dead and gone long before you



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    #2240
    JayRoc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461177#Comment_119461177

    I get what you're saying, and in a way I agree with some of it, but saying that there is no physical advantage regardless of who the jockey/driver/sailor etc is, is absolutely incorrect.


    The amount of physicality required in these sports is massive and you would presumably be shocked by how much training they need and how huge a difference it makes.



    Edit: I just saw there was an american-style "wrestling" entry in the list too. A match being pre-determined does not make it safe. I have huge respect for a woman who mucked in with the men in that arena.


    The reason that list is silly, and it is, is not because the sports in question don't require physicality.


    It is silly because they are all outliers, exceptions, rarities, etc. And anyone relying on outliers or exceptions to back up an argument is fighting a losing battle.

    Post edited by JayRoc on


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    #2241
    Newbie20
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭Newbie20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461255#Comment_119461255

    Nail on the head, some of those shouting loudest are completely clueless about sport.



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    #2242
    El Gato De Negocios
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    The amount of goal post shifting and sleight of hand from a handful of extremely active people in this thread is absolutely breathtaking, it really is. Thankfully the overwhelming majority of posters have the ability to place common sense and good old fashion cop on ahead of "right-onism". Taking boards as a petri dish of general public consensus means most right thinking people are of the same views.



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    #2243
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461758#Comment_119461758

    That's because 95%+ people know that biological men have an unfair sporting advantage when competing against biological females due to their physiological makeup. It's an undeniable fact that, in general, men are faster, bigger and stronger than biological females. And identifying as a transwoman doesn't remove that unfair advantage.



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    #2244
    xxxxxxl
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462162#Comment_119462162

    Don't worry they have thought of that with the hate speech legislation. You will have the cops turn up at the door because someone feelings get hurt. Irelands answer to Swatting it will be.



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    #2245
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    It has been evidenced on this thread that there is a worrying ignorance on the part of posters who are pro physical males in women's sport.

    How else can you explain contributers who argue that women can't run as fast as men because they aren't trying hard enough or think that pro wrestling isn't scripted?

    It's indicative of lives lived on the internet, not lived experience enough among men and women to understand the general differences, much less a sporting life.

    It's frightening to me that English speaking societies are producing adults with less common sense and worldly wisdom than my 10 year old.



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    #2246
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461976#Comment_119461976

    There is no physical contact between males and females in horse racing, sailing or driving. Obvious point is obvious in the context of the conversation we are having.



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    #2247
    JayRoc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462936#Comment_119462936

    I'm not being pedantic but you kept saying things like "the horse does all the work" or "the car does all the work" so it doesn't matter who is riding.


    I work as a strength and conditioning coach/physical prep guy for numerous sports and the above is flat out wrong.

    Physical strength makes a HUGE difference even in non-contact sports, which if you think about it actually helps your ultimate point.



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    #2248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462093#Comment_119462093

    It's appalling. A grown-ass man is goading and sneering, twisting and misrepresenting what people are saying, he did state that male bodied people being physically stronger than female bodied people is a "bigoted notion" (wtf?!) yet he's denying that now for the craic, making extremely absurd comparisons, accusing people of saying things they never said, jumping to preposterous conclusions, claiming that we're getting "desperate" and that in many years to come when he's dead, he'll still be right (about what? We all acknowledge there can be rare exceptions - I've already done so before this farce. But that said, the flaws in that list are plain to see).

    It's like a small child bouncing around annoying people and going "HAAhaa!" This is not reasonable or rational. He's just having a laugh. If there was a counter argument, by God it would be made. Flitting around, being inflammatory, throwing out slurs - this demonstrates how there isn't a counter argument.

    I understand people having the initial reaction that it's unfair on trans women - most people aren't unkind - but when you actually think about it, you can see why: it's purely for fairness to women, it's not out of malice to trans women. It's simply because of the inescapable fact that male bodies are physically stronger than female bodies, therefore women would be at a disadvantage, and an increased risk of injury in contact sports. Where is the bigotry? We always have to explain ourselves - how about the others lay out how this is bigotry, and why they are suddenly, for people who are so open-minded, willing to throw women under the bus? It's not coming from a place of sincerity - they know it's not bigotry - but they feel obliged to take the stance that they do because it's not conservative (even though you don't have to be a conservative to acknowledge that male bodies are stronger than female bodies).

    I understand the upset over public toilets/changing rooms, because obviously most trans women are not sexual predators, and it's a guilt by association thing (although TRAs have no problem using guilt by association towards us coming from a feminist perspective - saying we're nazis and similar such nonsense) but sport is cut and dry - it involves the body, not gender.



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    #2249
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I take it from the silence that there were no safety incidents with the two trans women players at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2250
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119463254#Comment_119463254

    Well nobody actually said that but dishonesty seems to be your go-to.



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    #2251
    Fandymo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119462967#Comment_119462967

    The thread is about men competing in woman's competitions.



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