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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Beforehand tis neither. Must be a Dassault judging by the markings!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Neither.

    Its a Rafale of the French Air Force at St Dizier. Its the shed in the background that's of note. The RAF use something similar overseas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They would fit in lovely in carrickfin



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    If memory serves for some of the bases in Southern US they also have light cover rather than HAS for some types. Those that use them are really relying on previous generations of investment, I mean how many new HAS capacity have been built in North America or Europe recently? Most I would think are using legacy investments because they are already sunk costs so why wouldn’t they?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm afraid with the ICBM silos just signed off for that location, there will not be any room for a fighter base.

    Sorry.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Initially yes. In fact we wouldn't really have another option.

    But if we did ultimately get serious about fast jets, it would be good for the DF and for the whole programme to deliver all levels of training at home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    The Polish Air Force has just invested in a significant number of the Kai F50 Fighting Falcon and is welcoming other European Air Force pilots to do training. They achieved a mega quick delivery of about 1 year for the planes. Forget the RAF. They have a problem meeting their own needs and those of export nations for the Typhoon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    Spot on, was in Cyprus many years ago and see the RAF use those hangars in Akrotiri…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Keeps the costly aircraft out of the elements, without reducing their ability to get moving without much assistance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They wouldn't really keep them out of the elements in a damp Irish winter of sideways rain and low temperatures.

    If not hardened hangars, we'd certainly need more standard hangar space, likely 200% more than currently exists at Baldonnell.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    They use them in the Falklands, where sideways rain was invented. This is the QRA shelter. It does have a Berm around 2 and a half sides though, as it was built originally for Phantoms.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    A Hanger should not be an issue cost wise. At the end of the day they are just a glorfied Steel Portal Frame.

    Look at the Hanger in custume barracks



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Exactly my point, though they have a tender out for a permanent structure in Athlone for the heli. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is that just to have a Midland base for a helicopter or do they expect to have HEMS long term?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Good question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    With the private HEMS base being set up by the HSE in cork is the plan to have Private Hems for the north of the country long term

    The only problem with private HEMS and the IRCG they can not offer the service the air corps can such as landing in your garden if needs be



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Why not?

    While I can't speak for the S-92, a light or medium lift HEMS can land in much the same fashion as an Air Corps 139.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I dont belive they can Private HEMS/IRCG have to land at a designated zone such as a football pitch. The air corps are not bound by civil aivation law so they can land in peoples gardens and housing estates which they do

    I could be very wrong about the above but its what i remember i read in a HSE report

    The Cork Charity helicopter is being funded fully by the HSE now untill the new contract comes in to effect in the next 12 months.

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Interesting article discussing the reasoning behind Poland's recent decision (as an F16 operator) to purchase the FA-50.

    Heavy (or rather, light) Metal in the South, Pt. 5 – The Korean Bird Appears – Corporal Frisk



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Jolly interesting article Dohville if rather technical. I'm sold on this one!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ehhhh, no.

    One crucial word missing from that entire article, is 'interceptor'.

    Poland is buying a light combat aircraft as an F-16 / F-35 gateway, but also one with significant air-ground capability, useful to a Country with massive land frontier facing in the direction of the most belligerent power on Earth.

    That picture in the article of the FA-50s in formation with an A-10, tells you all you need to know.

    Poland's needs do not equal Ireland's needs. Ireland's needs are for a capable all-weather interceptor with over horizon anti-air and probably anti-ship capabilities.

    That's not the FA-50.

    In another era, my prescription would be 16 x F-14s, but realistically now, its the F-16, F/A-18 or JAS-39.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Interteceptor, maybe not. However it could do most of the Air Policing work, as well as anything else on the list (Block 20 anyway).

    I'm starting to think the Gripen E/F may no longer be considered an option. SAAB has yet to finish delivering all the C/D for Sweden, and are relying on Embraer to build the brazilian order, so it can focus on Upgrading the Swedish Gripen with E/F. The fact their display pilot was showing the C/D this year, instead of the E/F as was supposed to be the case, may be worth further investigation. If SAAB can upgrade a C/D to share most of the architecture of the E/F, apart from the airframe, why bother buying an E/F at all?

    It does appear though that LM are unable to produce the remaining F-16 at the pace required, and is instead offering those who would otherwise be F-16 customers the FA-50, if they have no plans to buy F-35.

    When you say that Poland are buying an LCA with significant air-ground capability, don't you mean air-surface? In that regard we also have a massive ground frontier, where the Navy of the most belligerent powers on the planet likes to play stupid games.

    F/A-18 is old tech. It failed to make the grade in recent competitions, where legacy operators were making the selection. It wasn't future proofed enough to justify the high unit cost. I expect the only place it will be found is replacing the F-5 and T-38 in US service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If we bought The Polish built FA50 i am sure there would be some EU Funding to help the purchase to enable EU defence on the western side of the block



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Of course it is a perfectly capable interceptor. It can fire air to air missiles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,086 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A PC-9 can fire air to air missiles.

    If any plane doesn't have the outright speed or range to close to target or loiter to establish contact in a CAP pattern, then what good is it?

    The FA-50 can fly at Mach 1.5, but its range is only 1,800 kms and that range is most certainly not at high speed.

    In case it hasn't escaped your attention, we don't have tanker aircraft, or even a west coast base.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    There's a photo of an AC plane on the Galway Airport Website. No comparison between a FA50 and a PC9M at all. FA 50 can fly at 48000 feet. Tons of runways on West Coast. Not too difficult a problem from our resourceful military to mount a successful Air policing /interception sortie with resources around current disposal. Range no problem. The country is not vast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Let Ulick McEvaddy build his terminal at dublin airport and he can sort out our refuelling



  • Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It can carry up to three external tanks, but how does that interact with top speed is a different question.



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